AR15.Com Archives
 how many have a pinned muzzle break
fnub315  [Member]
2/6/2011 2:25:55 PM
How many people have a pinned/ welded muzzle break vs a plain old non threaded barrel??? Show pictures...I don't see anywhere here where there is a thread of NY compliant AR's anymore.....
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USMC6177  [Team Member]
2/6/2011 2:44:17 PM
1 preban 1 pin/weld

that is before the boating accident. I have not guns anymore
FITTER  [Team Member]
2/6/2011 3:18:25 PM
My one postban doesn't have a muzzle brake; it has the plain barrel. I can't post pics because I don't have Internet at the moment(and yes, unfortunate boating accident, as well).

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

(I meant postban... )
tc556guy  [Team Member]
2/6/2011 3:31:19 PM
I do. Bushmaster Dissy with the AK muzzle break.
EJThor  [Member]
2/6/2011 4:01:15 PM
Before my rifle fell overboard in a terrible kayaking accident, it just had a simple target crowned muzzle.
Badge304  [Member]
2/6/2011 4:40:01 PM
Stag upper with their muzzle brake on mine.

-FiveFiveSIx-  [Team Member]
2/6/2011 7:10:19 PM
Originally Posted By Badge304:
Stag upper with their muzzle brake on mine.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd313/Rick-the-Builder/AR-Carbine%202011/P2060043.jpg


Nice mag......
Badge304  [Member]
2/6/2011 7:20:23 PM
Originally Posted By -FiveFiveSIx-:
Originally Posted By Badge304:
Stag upper with their muzzle brake on mine.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd313/Rick-the-Builder/AR-Carbine%202011/P2060043.jpg


Nice mag......


Blocked 10/30 Pmag, for photographic and display purposes only.
Evild  [Team Member]
2/6/2011 7:35:13 PM
If I had one, which i don't, it would be sitting somewhere, which it isn't, with a pinned brake.
RabidMonkeyPox  [Member]
2/6/2011 8:07:22 PM
Everything I own is pinned/weld. Even the preban.
StoutOfHeart  [Life Member]
2/7/2011 1:08:54 AM
Originally Posted By -FiveFiveSIx-:
Originally Posted By Badge304:
Stag upper with their muzzle brake on mine.

[Insert Red X Here]


Nice mag......
Well, you've only been here for just over 6 months now so maybe you don't get the "rules". When you THINK someone may be headed for trouble, probably best to send them an IM rather than call them out on it publicly. See, like I'm doing now, not cool. Kinda sucks, right. Although, my post isn't likely to cause you to get a visit by the NYSP. Yours, however... See what I mean? I hope so. You never know when the shoe will be on the other foot.
AKJJ  [Member]
2/7/2011 2:09:42 AM
I have a pinned muzzle brake as well on my Stag model 2 and it was done at the factory that way. It looks very good and you cannot really tell that it is pinned but if anyone is secretly spying on me to see if I am in compliance you can beleive me that it is! Land of the Free? Anyone? Oh yeah I lost all my guns/weapons in a boating accident too! Really? This is friggin ridiculous! Nothing like defending the freedoms of Americans for over 24 years now and it is friggin ridiculous that we cannot discuss our weapons (Freedom of speech) on a Forum for NY for weapons (The right to keep and bear arms)! Oh and the friggin addresses and names of those who carry is not an infringment of our rights? WTF? Stop drinking the KOOLAID! It is tanted with liberalism! How about I talk about my weapons LIBERALLY (FREELY)! Look it up in the thesaurus! If they are liberal about all these freedoms why not be liberal about the freedom to keep and bear arms!

Yeah I had a lot of Coffee! Rant over!

Keep up the fight!
Castillo  [Team Member]
2/7/2011 8:12:35 AM
Originally Posted By -FiveFiveSIx-:
Originally Posted By Badge304:
Stag upper with their muzzle brake on mine.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd313/Rick-the-Builder/AR-Carbine%202011/P2060043.jpg


Nice mag......


What are you, the Gestapo?
FITTER  [Team Member]
2/7/2011 8:21:16 AM
Originally Posted By AKJJ:
If they are liberal about all these freedoms why not be liberal about the freedom to keep and bear arms!


Because they have their own agenda, and they play by their own set of rules. Don't give them any ammo.

Regarding the PP thread, I first accessed it on my phone, so I had to enter the URL in Google to find the site. Lo and behold, what was the second entry? Why, the Arfcom thread, of course.

ETA my Dissipator, non-threaded and bare:



The bare, post-ban muzzle, shown with different handguards (I kinda like it this way, to be honest):



In my opinion, the Dissipator is one of the handiest configurations of all, and this one is not much longer than a pre-ban 16" carbine with the stock set at its shortest.

Jim
Dieter122  [Team Member]
2/7/2011 10:07:24 AM
Anything I have that is not preban gets a comp pinned and welded...
SigSauerNY  [Team Member]
2/7/2011 10:13:25 AM
bcm middy upper with a pws fsc556 - work done by steve @ Adco

AKJJ  [Member]
2/9/2011 1:43:01 AM
Originally Posted By SigSauerNY:
bcm middy upper with a pws fsc556 - work done by steve @ Adco

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad299/sigsauerny/IMG_1942.jpg


I have heard good things about the FSC556. How do you like it? Is it as loud as some of the other ones out there? Looks good! Thanks.
RabidMonkeyPox  [Member]
2/9/2011 8:35:08 AM
Originally Posted By AKJJ:
Originally Posted By SigSauerNY:
bcm middy upper with a pws fsc556 - work done by steve @ Adco

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad299/sigsauerny/IMG_1942.jpg


I have heard good things about the FSC556. How do you like it? Is it as loud as some of the other ones out there? Looks good! Thanks.


Best muzzle device out there.
SigSauerNY  [Team Member]
2/9/2011 10:41:44 AM
Originally Posted By AKJJ:
Originally Posted By SigSauerNY:
bcm middy upper with a pws fsc556 - work done by steve @ Adco

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad299/sigsauerny/IMG_1942.jpg


I have heard good things about the FSC556. How do you like it? Is it as loud as some of the other ones out there? Looks good! Thanks.


it shakes the walls a bit @ Mitchell Field / Nassau County Rifle Pistol Range - works great and I have no complaints, worth it imho
JW1069  [Team Member]
2/9/2011 11:26:21 AM
Originally Posted By AKJJ:
Originally Posted By SigSauerNY:
bcm middy upper with a pws fsc556 - work done by steve @ Adco

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad299/sigsauerny/IMG_1942.jpg


I have heard good things about the FSC556. How do you like it? Is it as loud as some of the other ones out there? Looks good! Thanks.

I use these on my rifles as well and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. For ban staters, it's probably the best of the brakes you could buy and not nearly as obnoxious sounding as most other brakes. The BATFE letter gives solid peace of mind too. On my next upper, I want to try a BattleComp for comparison even though they're more expensive.

pwr2al4  [Team Member]
2/20/2011 6:17:22 PM
Originally Posted By Evild:
If I had one, which i don't, it would be sitting somewhere, which it isn't, with a pinned brake.


same, except all that but it would be sitting on the bottom of the ocean unfortunately, gd damn Zodiacs capsize so easy these days.
Dieter122  [Team Member]
2/20/2011 7:32:55 PM
Originally Posted By pwr2al4:
Originally Posted By Evild:
If I had one, which i don't, it would be sitting somewhere, which it isn't, with a pinned brake.


same, except all that but it would be sitting on the bottom of the ocean unfortunately, gd damn Zodiacs capsize so easy these days.


all my ARs, AKs, and Sigs went down with my boat(s).

We are all terrible mariners

The first guns I took out no my vessel were those with pinned stocks and pinned MBs too...damn. Funny how things work out isnt it?
TokiWartooth  [Member]
2/20/2011 9:55:59 PM
I have two blunderbusses. That's it. They shoot cotton balls. And they're 4 ft. long. And bright orange. They smell like sugar and spice and everything nice.
Silverbulletz06  [Team Member]
2/20/2011 10:01:49 PM
I use a Carlson Compensator on mine. Its pinned and pressed in. Not going anywhere. I asked the smith about it, he said the only way its coming out is if you drill and cut it out.
fp1201  [Team Member]
2/20/2011 10:27:12 PM
I didn't have any "boating accidents" I boxed up and moved everything but a single shot .410 down South.
Even if you figure out which State, unless you have evidence they were used in a crime, they're going to tell NY to FOAD.
fp1201  [Team Member]
2/20/2011 10:59:10 PM
You know that none of this really matters: The issue with the other shops was selling rifles that the DA's Office determined were clones/copies/look-like Colt AR-15's... the fact that the Federal Government decided that they are not is of little consideration since NYS never ruled or offered guidance to what is and is not acceptable.
The pinned stocks and muzzle devices are a distraction to the real issue of what we commonly call "AR-15's" being copies of the rifle named in the State ban......IF they were dumb enough to come out and say that "ALL OF THE AR-15 RIFLES ARE ILLEGAL UNDER THE NYS AW BAN" (I'm certain they'd omit the pre-ban disclosure) think of the backlash that would cause. Rice is playing the gray area, and depending on public sentiment and liberal Judges to make this stick.

What I want to know is who we can apply pressure to over what promises to be an injustice against our rights and liberties.
DaveM4P99  [Member]
2/20/2011 11:19:39 PM
Originally Posted By fp1201:
You know that none of this really matters: The issue with the other shops was selling rifles that the DA's Office determined were clones/copies/look-like Colt AR-15's... the fact that the Federal Government decided that they are not is of little consideration since NYS never ruled or offered guidance to what is and is not acceptable.
The pinned stocks and muzzle devices are a distraction to the real issue of what we commonly call "AR-15's" being copies of the rifle named in the State ban......IF they were dumb enough to come out and say that "ALL OF THE AR-15 RIFLES ARE ILLEGAL UNDER THE NYS AW BAN" (I'm certain they'd omit the pre-ban disclosure) think of the backlash that would cause. Rice is playing the gray area, and depending on public sentiment and liberal Judges to make this stick.

What I want to know is who we can apply pressure to over what promises to be an injustice against our rights and liberties.


Not possible with how the current penal law / AWB is written in NYS.

They can say "all AR-15s are illegal," because "AR15" is just a name, not really a type of weapon. A type of weapon is more generic: Long gun, handgun, shotgun, rifle etc. None of us really own AR15s...I own a Colt Match Target, you own a Bushmaster XM15, you own a Stag A2 etc. etc.

They can't just say "Any gun that looks like this photo in any way is illegal." Photos aren't allowed in the penal law.

The only way for them to possibly outlaw our "black rifles" is to add more illegal features to the NYS Penal law...like saying "No more pistol grips"...that would SUCK.

fp1201  [Team Member]
2/20/2011 11:39:59 PM
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:
Not possible with how the current penal law / AWB is written in NYS.

They can say "all AR-15s are illegal," because "AR15" is just a name, not really a type of weapon. A type of weapon is more generic: Long gun, handgun, shotgun, rifle etc. None of us really own AR15s...I own a Colt Match Target, you own a Bushmaster XM15, you own a Stag A2 etc. etc.

They can't just say "Any gun that looks like this photo in any way is illegal." Photos aren't allowed in the penal law.

The only way for them to possibly outlaw our "black rifles" is to add more illegal features to the NYS Penal law...like saying "No more pistol grips"...that would SUCK.


It seems to me that they're doing just that: Those AR type rifles look just like (to the average person) just like the Colt AR-15 that's spelled out in the ban, same will be said of WASR's that look just like an AK. (yes, I know the differences) point is they don't see them and are lumping the platform into one specifically banned rifle.
I understand what you're saying, I understand the differences, however the DA appears not to be. Make no mistake; the goal is to make any Eugene Stoner design rifle the equivalent of the Colt AR-15, and therefor illegal under NY Law
Unless you can show otherwise, they have a legitimate claim because the State did not officially adopt the BATFE standards we used under the Federal Law.

Look at it this way: you can build a small block chevy without a single part from General Motors. Technically is is not a Chevrolet engine, but will always be referred to as such.
Obviously Rice sees them all as Colt Ar-15's and therefor illegal (post ban) All the other stuff such as pinned stocks, changed muzzle devices, assembling the lower as "manufacturing" is all frosting on a cake made of bullshit.
DaveM4P99  [Member]
2/20/2011 11:59:38 PM
Originally Posted By fp1201:
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:
Not possible with how the current penal law / AWB is written in NYS.

They can say "all AR-15s are illegal," because "AR15" is just a name, not really a type of weapon. A type of weapon is more generic: Long gun, handgun, shotgun, rifle etc. None of us really own AR15s...I own a Colt Match Target, you own a Bushmaster XM15, you own a Stag A2 etc. etc.

They can't just say "Any gun that looks like this photo in any way is illegal." Photos aren't allowed in the penal law.

The only way for them to possibly outlaw our "black rifles" is to add more illegal features to the NYS Penal law...like saying "No more pistol grips"...that would SUCK.


It seems to me that they're doing just that: Those AR type rifles look just like (to the average person) just like the Colt AR-15 that's spelled out in the ban, same will be said of WASR's that look just like an AK. (yes, I know the differences) point is they don't see them and are lumping the platform into one specifically banned rifle.
I understand what you're saying, I understand the differences, however the DA appears not to be. Make no mistake; the goal is to make any Eugene Stoner design rifle the equivalent of the Colt AR-15, and therefor illegal under NY Law
Unless you can show otherwise, they have a legitimate claim because the State did not officially adopt the BATFE standards we used under the Federal Law.

Look at it this way: you can build a small block chevy without a single part from General Motors. Technically is is not a Chevrolet engine, but will always be referred to as such.
Obviously Rice sees them all as Colt Ar-15's and therefor illegal (post ban) All the other stuff such as pinned stocks, changed muzzle devices, assembling the lower as "manufacturing" is all frosting on a cake made of bullshit.


We are on the same page...and I understand that the DA is trying to lump all AR types weapons into the banned category of Colt AR-15s...but it seems like she's just doing that for the cameras –– spelling out the actual penal law and explaining the absurdities of the NYS AWB for the cameras isn't exactly easy, or sensational enough, for the common news watcher.

And she MUST know that you can't ban any gun that simply LOOKS like an AR...at least under the current AWB law.

So what next? If I buy a ruger 10/22, give it black furniture, and add a pistol grip, it's considered an AR-15???

If this is her angle, she's in for a rude awakening...but I think it's just for the cameras to temporarily win the sensationalized vote...the only charges that will stick are any actual AWB violations...and we MAY get some actual definitive answers from the NYSP regarding proper ways to conform to the NYS AWB...which they have NEVER wanted to do because they want to keep it VAGUE so they can bust anyone they want.

What also bothers me is that this idiot DA rice says things like "they are taking illegal assault weapons and temporarily modifying them so they are techincally legal...but are easily converted back to evil baby killing assault weapons."

OK DA Rice, answer me this, HOW THE HELL DOES A TELE STOCK MAKE A GUN SO MUCH MORE DANGEROUS??? OR A FLASH HIDER (that really just keeps a shooter from being blinded if shooting at night), or a PISTOL GRIP??? Does she really think it helps to "shoot wildly into a crowd from the hip???

fp1201 - Are they actually being charged with illegal disposal of a copy or duplicate of a Colt AR-15??? If so, she are grossly misinterpreting the penal law.

As much as this retard Rice is doing a public awareness campaign to show how people can still own "M16s," we need to fight back and show how our "M16s" are no more dangerous (and actually much less powerful in most cases) than the average hunting rifle...and that a tele stock, pistol grip and flash hider don't make a gun any more dangerous.
Tony7189  [Team Member]
2/21/2011 9:32:22 AM
These cases could, if defended properly blow the AWB out of the water. The USSC Heller case made it clear that any weapons in common use could not be banned. The AR15 and it's many clones share a huge percentage of rifles sold in the U.S., a majority of those rifles being non-AWB compliant as they were sold in free states. So evil feature AR type rifles are in common use. McDonald has incorporated Heller to allow that decision to apply to the rest of the nation. Also a rifle with a pinned and welded/silver soldered muzzle device technically has threading. That is, until you try to twist off the muzzle device which would nullify/destroy the threading and technically cause the muzzle to no longer accept a muzzle device.
Gator  [Team Member]
2/21/2011 10:00:41 AM
Mine do. I'm a bit more of a collector. They just don't look right without a muzzle device. Just like an AK-47 wouldn't look right with an A2 flash hider on it.
DancingBear  [Member]
2/21/2011 10:18:14 AM
Originally Posted By fp1201:
You know that none of this really matters: The issue with the other shops was selling rifles that the DA's Office determined were clones/copies/look-like Colt AR-15's... the fact that the Federal Government decided that they are not is of little consideration since NYS never ruled or offered guidance to what is and is not acceptable.
The pinned stocks and muzzle devices are a distraction to the real issue of what we commonly call "AR-15's" being copies of the rifle named in the State ban......IF they were dumb enough to come out and say that "ALL OF THE AR-15 RIFLES ARE ILLEGAL UNDER THE NYS AW BAN" (I'm certain they'd omit the pre-ban disclosure) think of the backlash that would cause. Rice is playing the gray area, and depending on public sentiment and liberal Judges to make this stick.

What I want to know is who we can apply pressure to over what promises to be an injustice against our rights and liberties.



Very important question!! This may be the battle that we all have been anticipating (and dreading).
RabidMonkeyPox  [Member]
2/21/2011 10:47:45 AM
I pray Rice is as stupid as she seems infront of the cameras. I cannot imagine this will go good in a court of law, though this is NY but that is what appeals are for.
rkbar15  [Team Member]
2/21/2011 12:48:24 PM
The intent of the NYS Legislature was clear when the legislation was enacted into law in November of 2000.
Pataki press release August 2000

www.ny.gov/governor/press/00/aug9_00.htm (link now dead)

Assault Weapons Ban: Effective on November 1, 2000

The new law also establishes criminal sanctions for the possession and sale of assault weapons and large 
capacity ammunition feeding devices in New York State. Since 1994, federal law has restricted the possession 
of assault weapons and large capacity ammunition clips. This measure mirrors the federal provisions and 
definitions of "assault weapon" and "large capacity ammunition feeding device," as well as the exclusions 
and exemptions applicable to each.

As a result of this legislation, State prosecutors will now be able to prosecute the possession and sale 
of assault weapons. It will be a Class D violent felony to possess either an assault weapon or a large capacity 
ammunition feeding device, and a Class D felony to unlawfully sell an assault weapon or large capacity ammunition 
clip that was manufactured after September 14, 1994.



New York Legislative Memorandum, 2000 Ch. 189

Memorandum in Support, New York State Senate:

Establishing an Assault Weapons Ban in New York

Since 1994, federal law has restricted the possession of assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding 
devices. The provisions contained in this measure are designed to ensure that New York State's already stringent 
gun laws mirror the federal provisions.

The bill's definition of an "assault weapon" and a "large capacity ammunition feeding device," as well as the 
exclusions and exemptions applicable to each, mirror the current provisions of federal law defining and prohibiting 
activities related to a "semiautomatic assault weapon" and a "large capacity ammunition feeding device" 
(see 18 U.S.C.§§ 921[a][30], [31] and 922 [V.] and [w]) and the bill is not intended to prohibit possession of any 
weapon that is not prohibited by federal law.



sherm8404  [Team Member]
2/21/2011 12:55:49 PM

Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
I pray Rice is as stupid as she seems infront of the cameras. I cannot imagine this will go good in a court of law, though this is NY but that is what appeals are for.

No such luck with the stupidity angle. She didn't get this far being a dim bulb.

And by the time these cases hit the Appeals courts, if they do at all most of the shops will probably be fiscally screwed. Which is what she wants. What does she care how the shops door's are shuttered. Either she gets them via the law, or she loses in court but runs them down in legal bills and forces them to close.
gunwolf  [Member]
2/21/2011 1:12:25 PM
OK guys...I bought some scuba gear and underwater metal detectors...where abouts did those boating accidents happen?

all my AR's don't have anything pinned or wellded...because I don't own any!
my ak's that have muzzle brakes are blind pin welded. this is more than acceptable. I drill and tap the muzzle brake ,screw it on the muzzle...drill slightly into the barrel , insert set screw tightly, then cover weld. very perm. solution.
I do a penatrating weld on slant brakes and muzzle nuts.
Bushmaster1984  [Team Member]
2/21/2011 1:35:37 PM
my ARs have pinned cav comps, my SIG is a crowned muzzle, and my soon to be born 24in bull will have a target crown
RCapNY  [Member]
2/21/2011 5:19:11 PM
Originally Posted By rkbar15:
The intent of the NYS Legislature was clear when the legislation was enacted into law in November of 2000.
Pataki press release August 2000www.ny.gov/governor/press/00/aug9_00.htm (link now dead)Assault Weapons Ban: Effective on November 1, 2000The new law also establishes criminal sanctions for the possession and sale of assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices in New York State. Since 1994, federal law has restricted the possession of assault weapons and large capacity ammunition clips. This measure mirrors the federal provisions and definitions of "assault weapon" and "large capacity ammunition feeding device," as well as the exclusions and exemptions applicable to each.As a result of this legislation, State prosecutors will now be able to prosecute the possession and sale of assault weapons. It will be a Class D violent felony to possess either an assault weapon or a large capacity ammunition feeding device, and a Class D felony to unlawfully sell an assault weapon or large capacity ammunition clip that was manufactured after September 14, 1994.New York Legislative Memorandum, 2000 Ch. 189Memorandum in Support, New York State Senate:Establishing an Assault Weapons Ban in New YorkSince 1994, federal law has restricted the possession of assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices. The provisions contained in this measure are designed to ensure that New York State's already stringent gun laws mirror the federal provisions.The bill's definition of an "assault weapon" and a "large capacity ammunition feeding device," as well as the exclusions and exemptions applicable to each, mirror the current provisions of federal law defining and prohibiting activities related to a "semiautomatic assault weapon" and a "large capacity ammunition feeding device" (see 18 U.S.C.§§ 921[a][30], [31] and 922 [V.] and [w]) and the bill is not intended to prohibit possession of any weapon that is not prohibited by federal law.

and the bill is not intended to prohibit possession of any
weapon that is not prohibited by federal law.



The law has apparently been amended in NYS penal Law. Giving the final sentence ZERO credibility. If that final sentence were found to hold merit, it would erradicate the law in it's entirety. That will not happen, nor could it happen in any court finding prior to the NYS Court of Appeals.
This is very troubling. Our State representitives have been misleading us to believe our current NYS Law actually mimics the now historic Fed Law. If this were so, there would be direct mention of ATF guidelines for "pinned stocks, welded comps, etc..." or "easily altered".. blah...
rkbar15  [Team Member]
2/21/2011 6:19:30 PM

Originally Posted By RCapNY:

and the bill is not intended to prohibit possession of any
weapon that is not prohibited by federal law.

The law has apparently been amended in NYS penal Law. Giving the final sentence ZERO credibility. If that final sentence were found to hold merit, it would erradicate the law in it's entirety. That will not happen, nor could it happen in any court finding prior to the NYS Court of Appeals.
This is very troubling. Our State representitives have been misleading us to believe our current NYS Law actually mimics the now historic Fed Law. If this were so, there would be direct mention of ATF guidelines for "pinned stocks, welded comps, etc..." or "easily altered".. blah...

Nothing has been amended since the NYS AWB was enacted in 2000. The intent of the Legislature was to mirror the definitions of the Federal AWB "as well as the
exclusions and exemptions applicable to each". The fact that the Federal AWB simply expired in 2004 doesn't change the Legislative intent of the PL statutes as enacted and should be taken into consideration when reviewed by a NY appeals court.



RCapNY  [Member]
2/21/2011 7:05:19 PM
I agree with you completely!

But, if that is how the current NYS Admin & DA Rice viewed it, I doubt the topic would be in front of us.
Or perhaps they are just hoping to put a few local guys out of business. It seems they will be successful to a certain degree.
fp1201  [Team Member]
2/21/2011 8:19:59 PM
Originally Posted By DancingBear:
Originally Posted By fp1201:
What I want to know is who we can apply pressure to over what promises to be an injustice against our rights and liberties.



Very important question!! This may be the battle that we all have been anticipating (and dreading).


This IS the battle whose outcome WILL decide if the citizens of New York State may or may not own a semi-automatic rifle. Rice is hell bent on redefining the law: Either the similar weapons listed in the ban will be included or the whole law will be nullified. All these charges, the tapes showing muzzle devices & stocks (which they know is a hot topic issue with owners) is just smoke to make the red herring more palatable. Forget everything you know and have come to accept and believe; re-read the laws, disregard the standards we've previously held as gospel; it's all got to be proven, re-written, or thrown out.

On a slight tangent: I hope that everyone here is registered to vote; Jury pools are selected from the voter registration, do not shirk your civic duty to sit on a Jury....that same juror may hear one of these cases. Additionally, it IS THE JURORS RIGHT, in spite of any instruction given by the Judge to "nullify" any law the juror deems improperly applied or unjust. http://fija.org/category/jury-nullification/ All too often, we forget that if you're sitting on a jury and you find the charge to be bullshit, then you have the option to call it just that and find not guilty.
gaweidert  [Team Member]
2/22/2011 7:12:46 AM
I propose two motions:

1) That the next meeting mandatory of the entire NYS AFRCOM membership not be held on Seneca lake.

2) That it not also be mandatory that we bring all our firearms with us.

The last one turned into one huge SNAFU when all the boats converged at the meeting point at the same time resulting in a massive pileup with several boats sunk and all of our firearms lost over the deepest part of the lake. At least no members were lost.

I had (see above) a NY legal Stag upper on one of my AR's. Not all that happy with it as it did make the rifle a lot noisier form my perspective.
sharky30  [Team Member]
2/22/2011 1:16:02 PM
all of my rifles have plain crowned muzzles
BushBoar  [Team Member]
2/22/2011 2:55:26 PM
2 ARs, both preban, one 14.5" with perm FH, the other is a 16" with a non-pinned Vortex.
TokiWartooth  [Member]
2/22/2011 3:15:47 PM
Stop making excuses...

First, they came for gun store owners, and I did not speak out because I was not one..
Then they came for those with pinned stocks, and I did not speak out because I did not have one...
Then they came for the owners with pinned muzzle brakes, and I did not speak out because I did not have one..
Then they came for those with 30 round, unmarked pre-ban magazines, and I did not speak out because I did not have one....
Then they came for me because I had a AWB conforming black rifle that I knew was legal.... But there was no one left to speak for me.
Dieter122  [Team Member]
2/22/2011 4:33:50 PM
Originally Posted By TokiWartooth:
Stop making excuses...

First, they came for gun store owners, and I did not speak out because I was not one..
Then they came for those with pinned stocks, and I did not speak out because I did not have one...
Then they came for the owners with pinned muzzle brakes, and I did not speak out because I did not have one..
Then they came for those with 30 round, unmarked pre-ban magazines, and I did not speak out because I did not have one....
Then they came for me because I had a AWB conforming black rifle that I knew was legal.... But there was no one left to speak for me.


the truth, he speaks it

its true though, they split up gun owners....as there are diff catagories...fudds....rec shooters....pistol shooters....collectors.....C&R guys...EBR guys...etc. We have to stop them on all fronts and push the pro agenda forward, in all areas.

"The line must be drawn here"

im a bit of a star trek dork at heart. Its alright though.





Haha while looking for the above photo I came across this....another keeper

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