AR15.Com Archives
 Current RDIAS price and availablity?
rightwingnut  [Member]
6/4/2006 11:13:23 PM EST
well? I can't find any on impact guns.
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David_Hineline  [Moderator]
6/5/2006 5:57:41 AM EST
Expect to pay 10-11 thousand, place a want to buy add here, subguns.com and other NFA for sale boards.
Eyegun  [Team Member]
6/5/2006 8:59:56 AM EST
Good luck finding one at any price.....

FWIW, I was talking to John Stemple a while back. He said in the days leading up to May '86, he passed up on a deal for 1,000 steel DIAS's for $10/ea. Yes, ten dollars each.

He passed them up because the thought at the time was nobody would want them......
skeeters65  [Member]
6/5/2006 9:32:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Eyegun:
Good luck finding one at any price.....

FWIW, I was talking to John Stemple a while back. He said in the days leading up to May '86, he passed up on a deal for 1,000 steel DIAS's for $10/ea. Yes, ten dollars each.

He passed them up because the thought at the time was nobody would want them......



Talk about kick yourself in the a$$.... That $10,000,000.00 today!!! On the low side..
MBSL  [Member]
6/5/2006 9:03:33 PM EST
Sold one at my asking price of $13.5k a couple of weeks ago. Had a number of offers around the $12.5k mark. YMMV.
drfcolt  [Member]
6/6/2006 3:51:12 AM EST
One here:


NFA Market Board

WTS: C+R/trans MGs

Posted By: Black River Militaria in VT <bmg17a1@hotmail.com> (ldlwvtbas01-pool1-a251.ldlwvt.tds.net)
Date: 6/6/06 08:38

Black River Militaria CII
802-226-7204
P.O. Box 471
Cavendish, VT 05142

C+R/Trans MGs for Sale

C+R:

1. Mk I* .303 Bren; Brit Enfield mfg; CT legal; excellent plus; C+R

$45k
2. MkII .303 Bren; Australian mfg; exc; CT legal; C+R $45k
3. MP34 9mm; reblued to as new; mag C+R $15k
4. MG 34 7.92mm; DOT 1944, Czech mfg; reWAT; needs some cosmetic repair

from reactivation; 95% finish; very good plus; CT legal C+R $28k
5. S&W 76 9mm; ‘U’ prefix; as new C+R $8.5k

Transferable:

6. M16 .223; H&R museum gun; 100% perfect $16.5k
7. M16 .223; Colt; marked M16 “minty” $13k
8. M14 7.62; rifle; Winchester; Specialty Arms reweld, superbly done; minty

$9.5k
9. DIAS in host DPMS w/upper; complete rifle; new J. C. Benjamin steel DIAS
test fired only; excellent $14k

10. M2 Carbine .30; RIA conversion; exc $5.5k
11. Mini-UZI 9mm; Vector mfg; exc $8.5k
12. AK22 .22; Jaeger; Bingham conversion; exc $6.5k
13. AC556 .223; exc; CT legal; 1 20 rnd mag; exc $6.5k
14. M2HB .50; Chasen Corp sideplate; accessories; m3 mount; drum; links;
extra barrel; exc $25k
15. M60E3 parts kit; complete 'E' parts;100% perfect $4250
16. M60E3 parts kit; complete 'E' parts; excellent $4k
17. AM180 .22: brown furn; 1 drum; new barrel; E&L tuned; minty $9k
18. MP38 9mm; Inland Arms receiver; vg bore; reblued; sling; 3 MP38 marked

mags;excellent $17.5k
19. M1A1 Thompson .45; Phila. Ord. receiver; as new; excellent wood; 2X30

mags

very sharp $15.5k
20. K50 7.63X25; N. Viet. PPSh; non C+R remanufactured; very good $18k
21. AK47 7.62X39; Norinco receiver conversion; folder; exc $15.5k
22. Reisings; list in preparation
23. FNC sears; new, never installed $3750

gmtmaster  [Member]
6/6/2006 7:06:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Eyegun:
Good luck finding one at any price.....

FWIW, I was talking to John Stemple a while back. He said in the days leading up to May '86, he passed up on a deal for 1,000 steel DIAS's for $10/ea. Yes, ten dollars each.

He passed them up because the thought at the time was nobody would want them......



My dealer had a whole GALLON zip lock bag FULL of RDIAS years ago.. Couldnt sell them at 500.00 each. He then started including an upper in the price. Think it was like 700.00 or something with the upper.. Before tax of course... Still couldnt sell em.....
boomfab  [Member]
6/6/2006 7:36:58 AM EST
They are tough to find. Definitely post WTBs on the big name boards.
TIGERBAY  [Member]
6/8/2006 5:54:31 AM EST
Here's another listed on sturm...

WTS RDIAS w/Colt M16&AUTO marked lower 17k obo

Posted By: russ in or <russ223@comcast.net> (67.170.158.38)
Date: 6/8/06 09:00

WTS all steel SWD dias with colt lower that was marked SAFE SEMI. I had AUTO and M16 added. Upper in pic is not included. I will include an 11.5" upper to make the gun complete. Aimpoint and other acc not included.
$17,000 OBO. THANKS!
markm  [Team Member]
6/8/2006 5:57:34 AM EST
Tag
ORinTX  [Team Member]
6/8/2006 6:02:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
Tag



Same here.
Phil_A_Steen  [Team Member]
6/8/2006 10:16:18 AM EST
Whatever DIAS you seek, make sure that it's not serialized with a "SP1 . . . " number.
rag  [Member]
6/8/2006 11:31:09 AM EST
I've seen Factory M16s cheaper than those prices listed!

Phil, if the number has an "SP1" does not mean it's married to the lower?
Phil_A_Steen  [Team Member]
6/8/2006 3:16:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By rag:

Phil, if the number has an "SP1" does not mean it's married to the lower?



No, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a married sear, but it certainly raises the question. If that's the case, you'll need to do some diligence to make sure it's not the case.

ETA: I steer clear of those because it's difficult for you to determine that for sure, but it may be easy for the .gov to find out through the original Form 1 or contacting the original owner. You probably wouldn't be prosecuted if you were an innocent purchaser, but you'd certainly lose the DIAS.
PePeLePew  [Member]
6/8/2006 4:46:51 PM EST
Nothing under $15k for a while.
cpermd  [Member]
6/8/2006 6:27:43 PM EST
Right now it makes more sense to buy a RR for $9-10K to me.
Unless you just have to have a modular lower.

CP
rickinvegas  [Team Member]
6/11/2006 9:12:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Eyegun:
FWIW, I was talking to John Stemple a while back. He said in the days leading up to May '86, he passed up on a deal for 1,000 steel DIAS's for $10/ea. Yes, ten dollars each.

He passed them up because the thought at the time was nobody would want them......



He probably passed them up because he didn't have the $200,000.00 tax to put them all on the registry. Besides, even if the guy did have $210K to spend on these DIASs 20 years ago it wouldn't have been a great investment necessarily. If he had done that in 1986 and stashed them away and the market caught wind that there were 1000 xferable sears out there today(even if they all were not put up for sale at once), the market value for these would plummet. Maybe a couple grand each tops. Outside the insulated internet world, there still isn't much of a market for NFA items as toys.

If I had $200k in CASH in 1986 and wanted to aggressively invest it, I could have made a hell of a lot more in real estate than in RDIASs.
tony_k  [Moderator]
6/11/2006 9:38:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By Eyegun:
FWIW, I was talking to John Stemple a while back. He said in the days leading up to May '86, he passed up on a deal for 1,000 steel DIAS's for $10/ea. Yes, ten dollars each.

He passed them up because the thought at the time was nobody would want them......



He probably passed them up because he didn't have the $200,000.00 tax to put them all on the registry. Besides, even if the guy did have $210K to spend on these DIASs 20 years ago it wouldn't have been a great investment necessarily. If he had done that in 1986 and stashed them away and the market caught wind that there were 1000 xferable sears out there today(even if they all were not put up for sale at once), the market value for these would plummet. Maybe a couple grand each tops. Outside the insulated internet world, there still isn't much of a market for NFA items as toys.

If I had $200k in CASH in 1986 and wanted to aggressively invest it, I could have made a hell of a lot more in real estate than in RDIASs.


John Stemple is an 07/02 SOT. That means he could register all 1,000 DIAS without paying one penny in taxes.

So his total investment in 1986 would have been $10k. Even if he dumped them all at once on the market today and the value fell to $2k each, that would be $2 million return on a $10k investment.

I guess you could have done as well in real estate, but it woulda taken a lot of flipping.
rickinvegas  [Team Member]
6/11/2006 9:47:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By tony_k:
John Stemple is an 07/02 SOT. That means he could register all 1,000 DIAS without paying one penny in taxes



To get them on the xferable registry, he would have had to pay the $200 per rdias before the 05/86 deadline. It didn't matter what his FFL or SOT status was. "Pre-86" samples could be registered before the deadline for no tax.
tony_k  [Moderator]
6/11/2006 1:17:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By tony_k:
John Stemple is an 07/02 SOT. That means he could register all 1,000 DIAS without paying one penny in taxes



To get them on the xferable registry, he would have had to pay the $200 per rdias before the 05/86 deadline. It didn't matter what his FFL or SOT status was. "Pre-86" samples could be registered before the deadline for no tax.


I have to disagree with you.

First, under ATF Ruling 81-4, effective Nov. 1, 1981, all RDIAS were classed as machine guns. Thus, the 1,000 DIAS John Stemple was offered in May 1986 were either already registered, or unregistered contraband which could never be registered.

Second, if they were all ready registered, all he would have to do is file tax-free Form 3s to transfer them from the present registered owner to Stemple. Tax liability: $0.

Third, if they were not in the Registry, there is no way they can legally be registered. The last time unregistered existing machine gun could be registered was during the 60-day amnesty in 1968. A licensed 07/02 manufacturer cannot register an existing machine gun -- instead they may only legally register something they have made, and the registration paperwork (Form 2s) must by law be filed with BATF within 24 hours of their manufacture. As contraband they cannot be registered, therefore the tax liability: $0.

Fourth, the offer to Stemple may have been from a manufacturer offering to subcontract the actual assembly process of as-yet-unmanufactured sears under Stemple's 07/02 license. Such subcontracting is legal if done correctly, and thus John Stemple would have been the manufacturer of record, under his Special Occupational Taxpayer status. Tax liability: $0.

Now, if the person offering to sell them to Stemple was an individual who had purchased each of the 1,000 RDIAS as a civilian, the seller would have had to have already paid the $200 tax for each one. He -- the seller making the sale pitch to John -- would have $200,000 already invested and I doubt he would offer to sell them to Stemple for $10,000. So yes, if this were the case and the RDIAS were each already registered on a Form 1 or Form 4, then the transfer tax liability to Stemple would be $200,000.

I just find it hard to believe that in 1986, anyone would want to dump something he paid $200,000 for to raise a measly $10k, so I tend to believe the possibilities are one of the first four listed above.

YMMV.
rickinvegas  [Team Member]
6/11/2006 2:19:36 PM EST
TonyK, your read on the possible circumstances and options on these DIASs is full of overlapped laws and half truths. I really have no interest in going line by line but as a manufacturer, a 07/SOT prior to 5/86 had only two ways to get a machine gun on the NFA TRANSFERABLE rolls........by a Form 1 (Manufacturing one outside his SOT status) or a Form 4 (Selling one with the tax paid by the buyer of course). Both require payment of a $200 tax. A machine gun sitting only on a Form 3 (not on the NFA Rolls) or Form 2 after 5/86 became what is known today as a "Pre-86" dealer sample. If what you are saying was true, there would not be any "Pre-86" samples and there would be literally 100's of thousands more xferable machine guns available today for us to buy.
David_Hineline  [Moderator]
6/11/2006 3:06:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
TonyK, your read on the possible circumstances and options on these DIASs is full of overlapped laws and half truths. I really have no interest in going line by line but as a manufacturer, a 07/SOT prior to 5/86 had only two ways to get a machine gun on the NFA TRANSFERABLE rolls........by a Form 1 (Manufacturing one outside his SOT status) or a Form 4 (Selling one with the tax paid by the buyer of course). Both require payment of a $200 tax. A machine gun sitting only on a Form 3 (not on the NFA Rolls) or Form 2 after 5/86 became what is known today as a "Pre-86" dealer sample. If what you are saying was true, there would not be any "Pre-86" samples and there would be literally 100's of thousands more xferable machine guns available today for us to buy.



Rick please listen to Tony, he understands how it works you do not.

07/SOT manuf. NFA items on form 2 tax free, and they are in the registry and available for transfer, whey would a manuf. do a form 1 and pay $200 tax to register an item when he can do it no tax?

A machinegun sitting on a form 3 is already in the registry in the NFA rolls ready to transfer tax free to another dealer or tax paid to an individual onto form 4.

Pre-86 samples are NFA machineguns which were imported into the US after 1968 before 1986 and has nothing to do with the discussion.

tony_k  [Moderator]
6/11/2006 3:09:20 PM EST
rickinvegas, with all due respect....

I responded to you with a detailed explanation. You have no interest in responding to my post line-by-line, yet you label it "full of overlapped laws and half truths."

I can't quite fathom why you believe a Form 3 gun is "not on the NFA Rolls" or exactly how you believe you can get an unregistered machine gun "on the NFA TRANSFERABLE rolls" via a Form 4, which is a form used solely to transfer an already registered MG. Neither idea is based on law or reality.

If you wish to discuss this further, please cite the relevant laws and BATF regulations. Hey, I'll even accept cites from Dan Shea's Machine Gun Dealers Bible. If you cannot back up your claims, we shall have to agree to disagree.

Those individuals I have dealt with over the years, as well as those who have read my posts here and elsewhere, have an opinion of my knowledge of the law and the regulations.

I am sure there is someone who has an opinion of your knowledge, though I am not familiar with your posts on the subject.

Bottom line is, people will believe whom they want to believe. Let's leave it to them.
v188  [Member]
6/11/2006 3:52:50 PM EST
David and Tony are correct. Rick, you are wrong!
rickinvegas  [Team Member]
6/11/2006 3:57:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By tony_k:
I can't quite fathom why you believe a Form 3 gun is "not on the NFA Rolls"



If you are going to quote me, please quote me correctly. I said "NFA TRANSFERABLE Rolls".

Second, NONE of the $0 tax examples you gave in your first response created a TRANSFERABLE machine gun in and of itself. None of them. I'm sorry to disagree with you but that is a fact.

On that note, I will just leave it at that and everyone can research the law for themselves.
VLODPG  [Team Member]
6/11/2006 4:00:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By v188:
David and Tony are correct. Rick, you are wrong!



Absolutely correct!
rickinvegas  [Team Member]
6/11/2006 4:04:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Pre-86 samples are NFA machineguns which were imported into the US after 1968 before 1986 and has nothing to do with the discussion.



What?? Only imported? Are you kidding?
Dude, check out any "for sale" source for yourself. "Pre-86" samples are NOT only imported weapons. Pleeeeease.
CleverNickname  [Member]
6/11/2006 4:10:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
What?? Only imported? Are you kidding?
Dude, check out any "for sale" source for yourself. "Pre-86" samples are NOT only imported weapons. Pleeeeease.



Durrrrrr, you think he's a moderator here because he's an idiot? You're the one who's wrong. Pre-samples are most definately only imported firearms. The 1968 GCA restricted NFA imports, not domestic NFA sales.
Phil_A_Steen  [Team Member]
6/11/2006 4:15:01 PM EST
Tony_K is 100% correct here (as usual). Ricknvegas, try looking at the FAQ at the top of the forum if you're unclear.
gopeterson  [Team Member]
6/11/2006 4:20:34 PM EST
Happy Thoughts
tony_k  [Moderator]
6/11/2006 4:41:41 PM EST
rickinvegas, if you're still there:

As David and CleverNickname pointed out, the Gun Control Act of 1968 restricted all imported NFA items to dealer-sample status only.

Yes, there are American-manufactured pre-sample MGs -- because any U.S.-made machine gun which was exported and then later re-imported to the U.S. also was covered by GCA 1968 and entered into the NFA Registry as an import, regardless of where it was manufactured. That was the only way a U.S.-made machine gun could be classed as a dealer sample before May 19, 1986.
David_Hineline  [Moderator]
6/11/2006 5:59:17 PM EST


What?? Only imported? Are you kidding?
Dude, check out any "for sale" source for yourself. "Pre-86" samples are NOT only imported weapons. Pleeeeease.


Ok I will correct my statement, pre-86 dealer samples are either imported weapons or re-imported weapons.

Phil_A_Steen  [Team Member]
6/11/2006 6:21:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:

What?? Only imported? Are you kidding?
Dude, check out any "for sale" source for yourself. "Pre-86" samples are NOT only imported weapons. Pleeeeease.


Ok I will correct my statement, pre-86 dealer samples are either imported weapons or re-imported weapons.





M60-E4  [Member]
6/11/2006 6:26:43 PM EST
I've learned a couple of things since I have been on AR15.com.......do not try to "out brain" Tony K or that "David" guy regarding NFA because you will be OWNED in a timely fashion!!!

Semper Fi,
M60-E4

RIA M60 W/ US Ordnance E4 Upgrade
cyrax777  [Team Member]
6/11/2006 7:22:23 PM EST
someone correct me if I am wrong but wasnt the surge in transferabl prices around the same time as the rise of the internet. damn near overnight people relized OMG I can legaly own a machine gun and also made it alot easyer for dealers to advertise there wares.

In other words no one really ever expected a DIAS to worth 10k+
David_Hineline  [Moderator]
6/11/2006 8:10:50 PM EST
Rick is not interested in being corrected, so my advice is to ignore his opinions of which he is too sure, even though all the industry profesionals would disagree with him.


Yes the internet played a large part in the change of guns in general not just NFA. Shotgun News and Machinegun News and the like used to be the source of firearms, Guns sold no one knew for how much or how quick. Machinegun News even had a free WTS/WTB forum and then the printed adds dissapeared, I wonder what they were thinking?

So now everyone can do a quick price check and see what stuff sold for, and raise thier prices to just over current market.

Instant pricing feedback.
Gunbert  [Team Member]
6/12/2006 6:37:57 AM EST
Wolfpack  [Team Member]
6/12/2006 9:12:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By M60-E4:
I've learned a couple of things since I have been on AR15.com.......do not try to "out brain" Tony K or that "David" guy regarding NFA because you will be OWNED in a timely fashion!!!

Semper Fi,
M60-E4
i51.photobucket.com/albums/f382/M60-E4/Mk-43.jpg
RIA M60 W/ US Ordnance E4 Upgrade



Nice M60!
Gunbert  [Team Member]
6/12/2006 10:13:14 AM EST
Just for the sake of clarifying this arguement lets assume that transferable machineguns are still legal;

At what point does the item actually get added to the NFA registry? When the SOT faxes in the form 3? Or is the form 3 only an intent to build, but not actual registration? (forgive me, I'm not an SOT so I'm trying to understand all the diferences in forms) Does a form 1 immediately register the device?


And one final question; if an SOT legally manufactured and registered a MG prior to the 86 ban, then what the heck is a pre-86 dealer sample? Shouldn't that be transferable to anyone as well? If not, then what is the diferentiation, since it was registered pre-86?



NFA is such a pain in the ass!
tony_k  [Moderator]
6/12/2006 11:08:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gunbert:
Just for the sake of clarifying this arguement lets assume that transferable machineguns are still legal;

At what point does the item actually get added to the NFA registry? When the SOT faxes in the form 3? Or is the form 3 only an intent to build, but not actual registration? (forgive me, I'm not an SOT so I'm trying to understand all the diferences in forms) Does a form 1 immediately register the device?


A quick rundown on the forms and how items are entered into the NFA Registry:

Form 1: Application to Make and Register a Firearm. This is used by non-license-holders, who must pay a $200 "making" tax. The information is entered into the NFA Registry during the application processing and, once approved, the item is in the Registry henceforth and forever. The approved application is mailed to the non-license-holder and, upon receipt of the approved Form 1, he can begin the manufacturing process.

Form 2: Notice of Firearms Manufactured or Imported. This is used by licensed manufacturers and importers who also hold valid SOTs. This form may not legally be filed until after the item is manufactured (or more than 80% complete) or if imported, when the item is released from bond warehouse and the importer takes actual possession. At that point, the manufacturer or importer must by law notify BATF within 24 hours. The item is immediately entered into the NFA Registry and remains there forever.

Note that for importers, a Form 6 must be approved prior to the actual physical import; but once the item is here, the importer must file the Form 2 within 24 hours. It only is entered into the NFA Registry when the Form 2 is filed.

Form 3: Application for Tax-Exempt Transfer of a Firearm and Registration to Special Occupational Taxpayer. This form is used to transfer an existing item already in the NFA Registry from one SOT holder to another. It cannot be filed until the item has already been registered via a Form 1 or 2 and has been entered into the NFA Registry.

Form 4: Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm. This item is used to transfer an existing item already in the NFA Registry when either buyer or seller does NOT hold a valid SOT.

Form 5: Application for Tax Exempt Transfer and Registration of a Firearm. This form is used to transfer an existing item already in the NFA Registry when either the buyer or seller is a law enforcement agency; it is also used to transfer existing items already in the NFA Registry from a deceased owner to an heir; and to temporarily transfer an existing item already in the NFA Registry from the owner to a gunsmith for repair or restoration.

Form 10: Application for Registration of Firearms Acquired by Certain Government Entities. This must be used by LE agencies when they acquire unregistered NFA items, either from confiscations, donations or when supplied by DoD. Thereis no specific time limit for LE to file the paperwork. Once the Form 10 is filed, the item is entered into the NFA Registry, but it cannot ever be transferred to anyone other than LE -- even SOT dealers are prohibited from taking them in trade.



And one final question; if an SOT legally manufactured and registered a MG prior to the 86 ban, then what the heck is a pre-86 dealer sample? Shouldn't that be transferable to anyone as well? If not, then what is the diferentiation, since it was registered pre-86?

Any machine gun registered prior to 1968 is transferable to anyone, as long as it has never been exported from the U.S.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 banned importation of all NFA for civilian ownership, so MGs and other NFA items imported after 1968 became part of a new NFA class: dealer samples, restricted to SOT/LE/GOV ownership.

The Gun Owners Protection Act of 1986 banned all manufacture of machine guns for civilian ownership effective May 19, 1986, and also added a requirement for dealers to get a demo request from LE before they could acquire post-1986 machine guns. This had the net effect of creating a third class of MGs:

--Transferables, which are all MGs registered prior to 1968, as well as domestically manufactured MGs registered between 1968 and 1986. Note that once an NFA item is exported, upon re-importation to the U.S. is it no longer transferable.

--Pre-1986 dealer samples. These are all MGs and other NFA items imported between 1968 and 1986, as well as any U.S.-manufactured MGs and NFA items exported at any time, then reimported between '68 and '86. These do not require a demo letter for SOTs to acquire, and also may be kept by SOTs when their license expires.

--Post-1986 dealer samples. This includes all MGs manufactured or imported after May 19, 1986, regardless of manufacturing origin. SOTs must get demo letters before BATF will approve transfer to the SOT, and when the SOT's license expires he must first sell or destroy all post-1986 samples.


NFA is such a pain in the ass!


NFA law? Yup.

NFA toys? Hell, no! They are the most fun you can have with yer pants on!
twckxbzd  [Team Member]
6/12/2006 5:52:17 PM EST
there is a steel dias on subguns for $11,750.
GPSIG  [Member]
6/15/2006 2:57:39 PM EST
I see steel DIAS and steel/aluminium DIAS. Is one considered better? On the Steel/aluminum models what part is steel and what part is aluminum?
Phil_A_Steen  [Team Member]
6/15/2006 3:02:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By GPSIG:
I see steel DIAS and steel/aluminium DIAS. Is one considered better? On the Steel/aluminum models what part is steel and what part is aluminum?




It's an urban myth that steel is any better. Even on an aluminum DIAS, the contact part (the sear trip) is hardened steel. Either type of DIAS will last effectively indefinitely whether the body is steel or aluminum.
RenegadeX  [Team Member]
6/15/2006 5:40:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By GPSIG:
I see steel DIAS and steel/aluminium DIAS. Is one considered better? On the Steel/aluminum models what part is steel and what part is aluminum?




It's an urban myth that steel is any better. Even on an aluminum DIAS, the contact part (the sear trip) is hardened steel. Either type of DIAS will last effectively indefinitely whether the body is steel or aluminum.



I am not so sure. the trip is held under pressure from the hammer. This pressure acts as a fulcrum on the pivot point which is the pin through the sear body. Pressure on this pin exerts force on the sear body. The harder the sear body substance, the less likely for it to egghole.
MisterPX  [Team Member]
6/19/2006 1:14:47 PM EST
There was one on Sturm this morning for $9900. I EM'd 3 hr after the ad, and it was loooooooooooong gone.
GPSIG  [Member]
6/22/2006 2:36:15 PM EST
There is a stainless one on Sturm now for 13.5. Are stainless ones any good? Haven't seen one before. I did a little more research. The stainless one is a J.C. Benjiman (JCB) of Portland Ore. Broker said a lot of the "steel" RDIAS parts are stainless. I also figured out it is the same one listed earlier in the post for 14K. Anyone have any experience with the JCB units?
Gorilla  [Team Member]
6/24/2006 12:58:11 PM EST
JCB is a top-shelf DIAS. More important than steel vs aluminum is the condition and accuracy of the body. A lot of them have been buggered over the years with set screws and unnecessary stuff. The body should be a snug fit on a standard upper rear lug. If the trip geometry is correct, then the stresses are not that high. A standard aluminum lower does the same work as a DIAS without problem.

DIAS prices were held down a bit until about 2 years ago, a lot like Vector kept Uzi's low, by Tilotta at Western Firearms here in TX. I'm not sure of the quantity, but I think he had about 100 of them. When M-16's took off after the Shrek was announced, the sears lagged behind a bit until they were gone. I got one of the last for $5500. After Nick ran out, with the demand still on for 16's, the prices skyrocketed.
RenegadeX  [Team Member]
6/24/2006 1:22:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Gorilla:
JCB is a top-shelf DIAS. More important than steel vs aluminum is the condition and accuracy of the body. A lot of them have been buggered over the years with set screws and unnecessary stuff. The body should be a snug fit on a standard upper rear lug. If the trip geometry is correct, then the stresses are not that high. A standard aluminum lower does the same work as a DIAS without problem.

DIAS prices were held down a bit until about 2 years ago, a lot like Vector kept Uzi's low, by Tilotta at Western Firearms here in TX. I'm not sure of the quantity, but I think he had about 100 of them. When M-16's took off after the Shrek was announced, the sears lagged behind a bit until they were gone. I got one of the last for $5500. After Nick ran out, with the demand still on for 16's, the prices skyrocketed.



The odds of getting a snug fit without shimming the lug are pretty low. I have never seen it. No problem though, shimming for a perfect fit is not a difficult task.

Nick told me he had 90 after 05/19/86. He was selling one a month, and sold his last one publicly for $4500 in December of 2002. Of course he bought/sold RDIAS as he was selling these, so he sold far more than 90 (and still does), but that was his initial stockpile. He turned down an offer to buy 300+ Hk sears in the early 90s. And another well-known dealer has over 150 FNC sears he is sitting on.

Wow, those were the days, RDIAS for $4500 or less, Vector Uzis for $2500, and MACs for under $1500.
Gorilla  [Team Member]
6/25/2006 4:23:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

The odds of getting a snug fit without shimming the lug are pretty low. I have never seen it. No problem though, shimming for a perfect fit is not a difficult task.



Hmm. My Broadhead has been a snug sliding fit on 5 uppers of all different varieties so far. Maybe I've been lucky. Rather than mess with the sear body, I'd instead either build up, or file down, any upper lug that doesn't match.


Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Nick told me he had 90 after 05/19/86. He was selling one a month, and sold his last one publicly for $4500 in December of 2002. Of course he bought/sold RDIAS as he was selling these, so he sold far more than 90 (and still does), but that was his initial stockpile. He turned down an offer to buy 300+ Hk sears in the early 90s. And another well-known dealer has over 150 FNC sears he is sitting on.

Wow, those were the days, RDIAS for $4500 or less, Vector Uzis for $2500, and MACs for under $1500.



Your info sounds better than mine. Maybe I got one he found in a corner of his safe, or he took in on trade, but it was an unused Broadhead, and I paid something like $5600. I need to look at the reciept, but it was a bit after 2002. Regardless, at the time it scared the hell out of me to fork over that kind of $$ for a widget in a baggie.
draver  [Member]
6/25/2006 4:40:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gorilla:
JCB is a top-shelf DIAS. More important than steel vs aluminum is the condition and accuracy of the body. A lot of them have been buggered over the years with set screws and unnecessary stuff. The body should be a snug fit on a standard upper rear lug. If the trip geometry is correct, then the stresses are not that high. A standard aluminum lower does the same work as a DIAS without problem.

DIAS prices were held down a bit until about 2 years ago, a lot like Vector kept Uzi's low, by Tilotta at Western Firearms here in TX. I'm not sure of the quantity, but I think he had about 100 of them. When M-16's took off after the Shrek was announced, the sears lagged behind a bit until they were gone. I got one of the last for $5500. After Nick ran out, with the demand still on for 16's, the prices skyrocketed.



I have a JCB sear I took delivery on this year. The trip had one upper corner chipped away but still ran fine. I called Mr. Benjamin and he wanted $500 to replace it. I had another gunsmith do the work for $100 and he made me a backup trip as part of the deal. It works perfectly also.

I'm no expert, but from looking where my trip was chipped, I'd say it had been heat treated to harden it and crystalized in the process.

I expect this sear to run quite a while, one issue is that the auto bolt carrier contacts the sear trip at the top outer corners. This is due to the carrier having a groove machined down the middle of the area that trips the sear. In my opinion, a better carrier design would have no machine groove, and thus provide more contact area for the top of the sear trip.

Can anyone describe what that groove's function is?
TowGunner  [Member]
6/25/2006 4:45:40 AM EST
Hey guys I would love to see some pictures, of your RDIAS if you care to post them.

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