AR15.Com Archives
 How does Young Mfg. compare to all of the other Bolt Carrier Groups (CMT, LMT, etc)?
ZippyGaloo  [Member]
6/15/2008 10:00:50 PM
How does Young Mfg. compare to all of the other Bolt Carrier Groups such as LMT, CMT, STAG, Bravo Company, RRA, Etc.

I was thinking about this Bolt Carrier Group from Raineir Arms
Young Mfg. Phosphate Bolt Carrier Group

1. What is your opinion of the Young Mfg. vs the other guys.
2. I think I really want all black, but should I instead consider a chrome BCG for some reason?
3. If I really want a black Bolt Carrier, should I consider at least a chrome bolt?

or is the one I'm linking to here as good as any? Or are any of the other ones better?
ZekeMenuar  [Team Member]
6/15/2008 10:16:44 PM

I have one. It's as good as the others. The NM carrier may be a little better due to tighter manufacturing tolerances. I bought mine specifically for the chrome. It's very easy to clean and adds a little more weight to the carrier group.

Chicks dig the shiny chrome bling factor. Youngs has the others beat there.

You could get a LMT or Bravo Co BCG and they'll serve you just fine as the Youngs BCG. They are all top of the line stuff.
ZippyGaloo  [Member]
6/15/2008 11:08:20 PM
What manufacturers BCG should I avoid?
badazzar15  [Industry Partner]
6/16/2008 2:49:06 AM

Originally Posted By ZippyGaloo:
What manufacturers BCG should I avoid?



Anyone that has a Non-shrouded firing pin.


Young, RRA, Colt, Stag, CMMG, Bravo Co. are all good. I like the Chrome finish on the Youngs, the maching is also better than most.

Gripgc8  [Member]
6/16/2008 10:00:50 AM
CMT is good too (CMT is LMT)

i will personally be using a Young mfg BCG in my LMT upper, chrome BCG, MPI bolt, bling....what more could you ask for $145?
PursuitSS  [Member]
6/16/2008 11:10:10 AM

Originally Posted By ZippyGaloo:



2. I think I really want all black, but should I instead consider a chrome BCG for some reason?
3. If I really want a black Bolt Carrier, should I consider at least a chrome bolt?




If you want a BLACK Young Manufacturing carrier, why not get one that is Ion Bond plated? It's harder than hard chrome, and black in finish.

MSTN - Young carrier

PursuitSS
FYRARMS  [Team Member]
6/16/2008 11:58:01 AM

Originally Posted By Gripgc8:
(CMT is LMT)

Since when?

ETA: I like my Young NM M16 carrier. Easy to clean.

Gripgc8  [Member]
6/16/2008 12:02:34 PM
isnt CMT made by LMT?

i could have sworn i read that on these forum's in another "which BCG do i buy" thread.

i thought the only diffrence was that the CMT's are MPI tested, and LMT is not.
FYRARMS  [Team Member]
6/16/2008 12:13:56 PM
CMT and LMT are two different companies. I have never heard of CMT making products for LMT (their competition), but my apologies if they do.
Gripgc8  [Member]
6/16/2008 12:50:26 PM
i understand they are 2 diffrent companies.

but sometimes larger companies make part's for smaller companies.

its 100% possible i am wrong...whatever...CMT is another option for a BCG.
DvlDog  [Member]
6/16/2008 2:43:25 PM

Originally Posted By Gripgc8:
isnt CMT made by LMT?

i could have sworn i read that on these forum's in another "which BCG do i buy" thread.

i thought the only diffrence was that the CMT's are MPI tested, and LMT is not.



so wrong its rediculous.
rippersde50  [Team Member]
6/16/2008 4:08:07 PM
I heard LMT MPI tests all there bolts but they do not stamp any lettering on them(the picture at Raineir shows an MP stamped on the bolt)

The CMT I have works with out issues but I did redo the stake job. Also LMT, CMT(MPI), and BravoCo BCG's are the same price. You really can't go wrong with any of them.

It's up to you whether you want to pay the extra doe for a Young BCG. All the other manufactures bolt groups you listed will do exactly what they need to do.

The chrome upgrade on the other hand will make cleaning a bit easier. I can't say what else it can do for you cause I was never really interested in the chrome BCG's, so I never looked into it.
CTbuilder1  [Team Member]
6/16/2008 7:51:39 PM
CMT = Continental Machine Tool in New Britain, CT they directly make stag and also produce parts for numerous other brands.

LMT = Lewis Machine Tool in Milan, IL. They make stuff under their own name as well as make parts for numerous other companies.

As far as I know LMT and CMT don't produce parts for each other. They are at the top of the production pyramid, right under the Forges. Both make good stuff. If it comes down to a choice between the two, I usually go with LMT.
ZippyGaloo  [Member]
6/17/2008 2:03:29 AM

Originally Posted By Gripgc8:
CMT is good too (CMT is LMT)

i will personally be using a Young mfg BCG in my LMT upper, chrome BCG, MPI bolt, bling....what more could you ask for $145?


Where are you going to get all of this for $145?
FYRARMS  [Team Member]
6/17/2008 4:48:51 PM

Originally Posted By ZippyGaloo:
Where are you going to get all of this for $145?

I was thinking the same thing. I bought my BCG from Randall at AR15Barrels, and it cost me $200 shipped...

Young NM chromed M16 carrier
CMT bolt and key, staked well

Gripgc8  [Member]
6/17/2008 5:27:24 PM
global tactical has them for $155 on thier site, and $145 in the EE.

edit: i think the $145 sale ended, now they are just $155 on thier site.
FYRARMS  [Team Member]
6/17/2008 5:33:56 PM
That's weird. They sell the AR15 version for $195 but sell the M16 version for $155.
Gripgc8  [Member]
6/17/2008 5:37:02 PM
thats because the AR one is NM, the M16 isnt.

rainier arms has the AR non-NM BCG for $165 IIRC?
FYRARMS  [Team Member]
6/17/2008 5:38:41 PM
Oh, I see. They offer a standard and "National Match" version, which I have. See the funky shape of my carrier in the above photo? Not sure what purpose it serves, but it is different.
FYRARMS  [Team Member]
6/17/2008 5:39:27 PM

Originally Posted By Gripgc8:
thats because the AR one is NM, the M16 isnt.

They must have changed the line-up, as my carrier pictured is a NM M16 carrier.


Gripgc8  [Member]
6/17/2008 5:40:28 PM
they still sell the M16 NM carrier.
J2X  [Team Member]
6/17/2008 5:51:34 PM

Originally Posted By FYRARMS:

Originally Posted By Gripgc8:
thats because the AR one is NM, the M16 isnt.

They must have changed the line-up, as my carrier pictured is a NM M16 carrier.

www.imageviper.com/displayimage/86308/0/NM_BCG1.jpg
www.imageviper.com/displayimage/86309/0/NM_BCG2.jpg


Is it legal to use an M16 carrier in an AR15?
What is the difference/advantage?
Thanks
Gripgc8  [Member]
6/17/2008 6:36:29 PM

Originally Posted By J2X:
Is it legal to use an M16 carrier in an AR15?
What is the difference/advantage?
Thanks


yes its legal, no real advantage.

it has been covered a bunch of times of you search.
ZippyGaloo  [Member]
6/17/2008 6:42:33 PM

Originally Posted By FYRARMS:

Originally Posted By ZippyGaloo:
Where are you going to get all of this for $145?

I was thinking the same thing. I bought my BCG from Randall at AR15Barrels, and it cost me $200 shipped...

Young NM chromed M16 carrier
CMT bolt and key, staked well

www.imageviper.com/displayimage/86310/0/NM_BCG3.jpg


Your bolt carrier is chrome, but your bolt is not chrome. Wouldn't you want it the other way around if easier cleaning was the reason for going chrome. Or am I wrong thinking the bolt gets dirtier than the carrier?
ZippyGaloo  [Member]
7/9/2008 2:32:56 PM
Still looking for an answer to the question above.
GONIF  [Member]
7/9/2008 2:58:31 PM
I highly recomend getting the M16 BCG from Bravo at $130.00, you will not find better.
ZippyGaloo  [Member]
7/9/2008 3:10:39 PM

Originally Posted By GONIF:
I highly recomend getting the M16 BCG from Bravo at $130.00, you will not find better.


It's an M16 version though.
kingoftheroad  [Member]
7/9/2008 3:12:48 PM

Originally Posted By ZippyGaloo:

Originally Posted By FYRARMS:

Originally Posted By ZippyGaloo:
Where are you going to get all of this for $145?

I was thinking the same thing. I bought my BCG from Randall at AR15Barrels, and it cost me $200 shipped...

Young NM chromed M16 carrier
CMT bolt and key, staked well

www.imageviper.com/displayimage/86310/0/NM_BCG3.jpg


Your bolt carrier is chrome, but your bolt is not chrome. Wouldn't you want it the other way around if easier cleaning was the reason for going chrome. Or am I wrong thinking the bolt gets dirtier than the carrier?


not sure if it matters in this application, but chroming weakens metal
GONIF  [Member]
7/9/2008 3:16:59 PM
and you shoul talk to some who knows ,because there are very clearly advantages to useing a M16 BCG . the M16 BCG will fit and due to the weight and the way the fireing pin is protected you will be better served with a M16 BCG . the Bravo BCG is the way to go Paul at bravo knows his shit and his BCG's are the best you can buy ,you could trust your life to it . he (Paul) is a fanatic about quality and his BCG is recognised by people who know as being the best . if anything is going to cause an AR to fail it will usealy be the bolt or the gas key ,or extractor . Paul's BCG will be a good upgrade to any M4. and at $130.00 ther is no compitition .

Originally Posted By Gripgc8:

Originally Posted By J2X:
Is it legal to use an M16 carrier in an AR15?
What is the difference/advantage?
Thanks


yes its legal, no real advantage.

it has been covered a bunch of times of you search.
ZippyGaloo  [Member]
7/9/2008 3:21:35 PM

Originally Posted By GONIF:
I highly recomend getting the M16 BCG from Bravo at $130.00, you will not find better.


It's an M16 version though.
GONIF  [Member]
7/9/2008 3:33:16 PM
that's exactly why you want it .it has a beefed up extractor and spring and is staked properly .

Originally Posted By ZippyGaloo:

Originally Posted By GON

CMT M16 Auto MPI Bolt Carrier Group


Our Price: $130.00


Stock Status: In Stock
Product Code: BCG-CMT-MP-M16









Description


Bolt carrier group for your AR15 or M16. Parkerized exterior, chrome lined inside carrier and gas key, with heavier profile at rear of carrier group and under firing pin. Manufactured and assembled by USGI Contractor CMT. Completely assembled, includes bolt carrier, bolt, firing pin, cam pin, and retaining pin.



IF:
I highly recomend getting the M16 BCG from Bravo at $130.00, you will not find better.


It's an M16 version though.
ZippyGaloo  [Member]
7/9/2008 4:11:18 PM

Originally Posted By GONIF:
that's exactly why you want it .it has a beefed up extractor and spring and is staked properly .

Originally Posted By ZippyGaloo:

Originally Posted By GON

CMT M16 Auto MPI Bolt Carrier Group


Our Price: $130.00


Stock Status: In Stock
Product Code: BCG-CMT-MP-M16









Description


Bolt carrier group for your AR15 or M16. Parkerized exterior, chrome lined inside carrier and gas key, with heavier profile at rear of carrier group and under firing pin. Manufactured and assembled by USGI Contractor CMT. Completely assembled, includes bolt carrier, bolt, firing pin, cam pin, and retaining pin.



IF:
I highly recomend getting the M16 BCG from Bravo at $130.00, you will not find better.


It's an M16 version though.


They will come and arrest me though. The Gov'ment.
spamsammich  [Member]
7/9/2008 4:23:29 PM

Originally Posted By ZippyGaloo:

Originally Posted By GONIF:
that's exactly why you want it .it has a beefed up extractor and spring and is staked properly .

Originally Posted By ZippyGaloo:

Originally Posted By GON

CMT M16 Auto MPI Bolt Carrier Group


Our Price: $130.00


Stock Status: In Stock
Product Code: BCG-CMT-MP-M16









Description


Bolt carrier group for your AR15 or M16. Parkerized exterior, chrome lined inside carrier and gas key, with heavier profile at rear of carrier group and under firing pin. Manufactured and assembled by USGI Contractor CMT. Completely assembled, includes bolt carrier, bolt, firing pin, cam pin, and retaining pin.



IF:
I highly recomend getting the M16 BCG from Bravo at $130.00, you will not find better.


It's an M16 version though.


They will come and arrest me though. The Gov'ment.


God damn. How many times does this have to be covered?
PursuitSS  [Member]
7/9/2008 4:59:24 PM

Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
not sure if it matters in this application, but chroming weakens metal




This statement comes from improperly applied hard chrome, any plater who has ANY experience with applying hard chrome know the proper procedure to deal with hydrogen embrittlement that can occur during the plating process.


Hydrogen Embrittlement
Is a process resulting in a decrease of the toughness or ductility of a metal due to the presence of atomic hydrogen. Hydrogen embrittlement has been recognized classically as being of two types. The first known as internal hydrogen embrittlement, occurs when the hydrogen enters molten metal which becomes supersaturated with hydrogen immediately after solidification. The second type, environmental hydrogen embrittlement, results from hydrogen being absorbed by solid metals.

Hydrogen embrittlement is a major cause of fastener failure. Prevailing thought is that steels with Rockwell hardness above C30 are vulnerable. The phenomenon is well-known although the precise mechanism has eluded extensive research. A number of proposed mechanisms have been proposed, and most have at least some merit. Current thinking is that the susceptibility to hydrogen embrittlement is related directly to the trap population. Generally, hydrogen embrittlement can be described as absorption and adsorption of hydrogen promoting enhanced decohesion of the steel, primarily as an intergranular phenomenon.

Electroplating is a major cause of hydrogen embrittlement. Some hydrogen is generated during the cleaning and pickling cycles, but by far the most significant source is cathodic inefficiency, which is followed by sealing the hydrogen in the parts. Baking must be performed on high strength parts to reduce this risk, and the ASTM, in 1994, issued a specification for baking cycles, as shown below. For the plater, having to adhere to the post plating baking cycles is mandatory to certify meeting the mil specs.



PursuitSS
jakehendrickx  [Member]
7/9/2008 5:48:10 PM
so your saying that his statement is incorrect and Chrome is just as good
bigkracka  [Team Member]
7/9/2008 7:55:57 PM

Originally Posted By GONIF:
and you shoul talk to some who knows ,because there are very clearly advantages to useing a M16 BCG . the M16 BCG will fit and due to the weight and the way the fireing pin is protected you will be better served with a M16 BCG . the Bravo BCG is the way to go Paul at bravo knows his shit and his BCG's are the best you can buy ,you could trust your life to it . he (Paul) is a fanatic about quality and his BCG is recognised by people who know as being the best . if anything is going to cause an AR to fail it will usealy be the bolt or the gas key ,or extractor . Paul's BCG will be a good upgrade to any M4. and at $130.00 ther is no compitition .

Originally Posted By Gripgc8:

Originally Posted By J2X:
Is it legal to use an M16 carrier in an AR15?
What is the difference/advantage?
Thanks


yes its legal, no real advantage.

it has been covered a bunch of times of you search.


Maybe you should take your own advice? Then follow up with a class on punctuation and spelling.

As for the M16 carrier being better, it's only advantage is weight, but it's only .5oz heavier. As for the shrouded pin, I don't know of a manufacturer that doesn't do this on their semi carriers. I've found the little bit of extra metal at the rear of the auto carrier makes it a bit harder to clean.

Paul is a standup guy and the BCM products are top notch. With his bolt/carrier you do get an assembly that's been tested, has the proper extractor spring/insert and o-ring just incase.

PursuitSS  [Member]
7/9/2008 7:56:04 PM

Originally Posted By jakehendrickx:
so your saying that his statement is incorrect and Chrome is just as good


If you are familiar with hard chrome (which is WAY different from"bumper" chrome), it bonds on the molecular level with the base steel. It can't chip. flake, peel, etc. When it is improperly applied it can make steel VERY brittle! DANGEROUSLY BRITTLE!

Hydrogen embrittlement has been know about for decades, any shop that currently does hard chroming should be very familiar with this and also be aware of how to prevent it. If your concerned, follow the chart and bake it out!

There are numerous platers who cater to the firearms industry and know the proper plating procedures.

Accurate Plating
Checkmate Plating
Metalife Plating

To mention just a few. If you purchase a Young carrier & bolt that is all ready plated you don't have a damn thing to worry about.

BTW, for everyone who is worried about their bolt carrier failing due to chrome plating...........guess what the inside where the gas rings ride is plated with!

PursuitSS
GONIF  [Member]
7/9/2008 8:20:30 PM
PersuitSS ,my spelling and gramer sucks ,but you get the meaning. if I had to do it again I would have stayed in scool instead of enlisting in the Army and going to Nam. I wish you were there with me and we would see what you know out in the bush . I very well could have gone back to scool after ,except with 3 kids and a wife to house and feed I never found time .now at 57 I don't have the time or energy to do anything about it .but I'm still smart enough to have M16 BCG's in all my AR's.
PursuitSS  [Member]
7/9/2008 10:11:24 PM

Originally Posted By GONIF:
PersuitSS ,my spelling and gramer sucks ,but you get the meaning. if I had to do it again I would have stayed in scool instead of enlisting in the Army and going to Nam. I wish you were there with me and we would see what you know out in the bush . I very well could have gone back to scool after ,except with 3 kids and a wife to house and feed I never found time .now at 57 I don't have the time or energy to do anything about it .but I'm still smart enough to have M16 BCG's in all my AR's.


I think your reading SUCKS! My reply post was to jakehendrickx and I originally was commenting on a post made by kingoftheroad

I never commented on any post you made in this thread! Up until this point the ONLY comments I have made in this thread have been in reference to the plating on bolt carriers!

You need to re-read who made the comment you are referring to:


Originally Posted By bigkracka:
Maybe you should take your own advice? Then follow up with a class on punctuation and spelling.

As for the M16 carrier being better, it's only advantage is weight, but it's only .5oz heavier. As for the shrouded pin, I don't know of a manufacturer that doesn't do this on their semi carriers. I've found the little bit of extra metal at the rear of the auto carrier makes it a bit harder to clean.

Paul is a standup guy and the BCM products are top notch. With his bolt/carrier you do get an assembly that's been tested, has the proper extractor spring/insert and o-ring just incase.



Oh, By the way, I run a LIGHTWEIGHT carrier in my duty weapon!

PursuitSS
kingoftheroad  [Member]
7/9/2008 10:22:04 PM
ok fine you win internetz for today then...
jakehendrickx  [Member]
7/10/2008 11:34:16 AM
I gotcha PursuitSS, thanks for clearing that up. so a chrome m16 BCG is the way to go for alittle more weight 5 oz. ?
K9-Bob  [Team Member]
7/10/2008 5:07:08 PM
Man I can feel the love today.
proguide  [Member]
7/10/2008 8:02:43 PM
I don't have experience with the one in question. I do however own both LMT and BCM Auto BCG's. Very high quality from both.
nicholsmf  [Team Member]
7/11/2008 6:47:45 AM

Originally Posted By Gripgc8:
CMT is good too (CMT is LMT)



It is never a good idea to repeat what you heard, or thought you heard when you have no idea if it is true or not.
3crowns  [Member]
7/21/2008 12:34:51 AM
Why the angle cuts on the body of the NM carrier but not the M-16?

I can only Search back 30 days.
MajorLeeHung  [Team Member]
7/21/2008 7:20:52 PM
There is no substitute for the Young's F/A carrier Diamondblack coated from MSTN. Period. Pricey, yes, worth every penny. The heart and soul of your rifle at pure perfection.