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 Federal Tactical LE223T1 ammo?
par0thead151  [Member]
6/12/2007 5:52:33 PM
how good of ammo for Self devense is this? compared to hornady tap, would this be a close alternative or superior round?
i can get the things for 45 cents a round from my local dealer, so im wondering if i should go for this round or some TAP
FNH  [Member]
6/12/2007 6:31:30 PM

Originally Posted By par0thead151:
how good of ammo for Self devense is this? compared to hornady tap, would this be a close alternative or superior round?
i can get the things for 45 cents a round from my local dealer, so im wondering if i should go for this round or some TAP


If I remember correctly dpmmn knows a lot about this stuff. It is the 64gr trophy bear claw right? I believe it's as good as TAP if not better, especially in barrier penetration.

jhud  [Team Member]
6/12/2007 6:50:38 PM
The LE223T1 is a 55 grain TBBC (trophy bear claw bonded)

The LE223T3 is a 62 grain """"

3000 to 3100 FPS in those stoner type rifle

Its not good self defense ammo unless you are being attacked by people/things surrounded by metal, wood, glass, or concrete/brick and also including armor.

It doesnt fragment and most likely will punch a clean hole through tissue without expanding. Very non lethal if rapid expansion is what you mean by lethal.

Its pretty hardcore ammo for what it does. I have a few leads I picked up after going through two plates of steel. Its in one presicion mushroom shape after that.. you can still read the T on the base od the bullet. I wil post a pic of the lead later. The rest of it is staying put away until its needed.

Unless someone head to toe in armor or a vehicle is your target dont waste it, use TAP for home defense.
par0thead151  [Member]
6/12/2007 7:03:49 PM
enough said, i will do as ar15.comers do and get both
now if i can just find some affordable 5.56 TAP

also, how much would a reasonable price be for the LE223T1 ?
paulosantos  [Team Member]
6/12/2007 8:55:07 PM

Originally Posted By par0thead151:
how good of ammo for Self devense is this? compared to hornady tap, would this be a close alternative or superior round?
i can get the things for 45 cents a round from my local dealer, so im wondering if i should go for this round or some TAP


It is one of the best barrier rounds available. It does expand pretty much upon impact.

Here is some more info:

le.atk.com/223data/223rifle.asp
dpmmn  [Team Member]
6/13/2007 2:13:02 AM
LE223T1 is the 55gr it was designed for barrier penetration.

Last fall I had the chance to test some on a car, and to say the least I was really impressed. The Car was a 1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass


Passenger door


Interior Passenger door


Exiting the Interior Passenger door


Interior Drivers side door


Entrance






Windshield Penetration


Through the back seat and into the trunk


Exit out rear deck lid


close up of exit, this round entered the windshield, went through the front and back seat and exited the trunk


I myself like the T3 I would not balk at T1,I have both. If you are going to get some remember it is expensive, and should not be wasted. I only used 6 rounds on this test.

There are less expensive choices for self defense rounds, TAP fits that bill good
The T1 or T3 is Serious ammo


ETA: The last I seen it, it was around $30.00 box of 20
blackeye  [Team Member]
6/13/2007 7:55:37 AM

Originally Posted By par0thead151:

i can get the things for 45 cents a round from my local dealer,



I'll give you a dollar a round shipped if you can come up with several hundred rounds. Not often you get to double your money.

Anybody else got any for sale?

Zhukov  [Moderator]
6/13/2007 9:20:28 AM
For people who routinely deal with barriers - such as police having to shoot through a car's sheet metal or windows - these are perfect rounds. Outside of that, a heavy OTM is a better choice. That's the inherent problem with 5.56 - it doesn't have the "oomph" to be good at everything.
hotpig  [Member]
6/13/2007 9:45:19 AM

Originally Posted By blackeye:

Originally Posted By par0thead151:

i can get the things for 45 cents a round from my local dealer,



I'll give you a dollar a round shipped if you can come up with several hundred rounds. Not often you get to double your money.

Anybody else got any for sale?



Buy all that you can find at this price. I can not get it from Federal this cheap.
dpmmn  [Team Member]
6/13/2007 11:02:19 AM
I did some checking this morning and everyone that I checked with is out of stock and they don't know when more is coming in.

The price is $35.00/ box of 20
par0thead151  [Member]
6/13/2007 1:18:21 PM
wow, i love great deals!
i picked up the 300 rounds that were for sale, i plan on keeping them unless i ever find my self in financial dificulty, then you may see them in the EE or somewhere.
Reyn  [Member]
6/13/2007 4:50:13 PM
For human targets it's not as good as TAP. For barriers like cars it is superior. I carry both on duty. For that price buy everything he has.
blackeye  [Team Member]
6/13/2007 6:00:36 PM

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
For people who routinely deal with barriers - such as police having to shoot through a car's sheet metal or windows - these are perfect rounds. Outside of that, a heavy OTM is a better choice. That's the inherent problem with 5.56 - it doesn't have the "oomph" to be good at everything.


Excellent point, thats why I keep two 30rd mags coupled together in each of my go to weapons. One mag loaded with LE223T1 and the other with Black Hills Red Box 75gr.

dvo  [Member]
6/14/2007 11:42:31 AM
Nice pics. Good to know what this stuff can do. I bought 2 or 3 hundred rounds of Federal 55gr. TBBC on close out about a year ago. Price was either $.50 or .75 per round (from two sources)...so it was a really good deal...especially in light of current ammo prices.

dvo
dpfan  [Member]
6/15/2007 6:49:21 PM
I had purchased some 55 grain Federal TBBC about 18 months ago and wanted to buy more, but it seems to have been discontinued. Is there another round in Federal's line that is comparable for barrier penetration?
Silence214  [Member]
6/15/2007 6:58:56 PM

Is there another round in Federal's line that is comparable for barrier penetration?



Yes...


Federal 223 Rem 60gr Nosler Partition




This load is equal to or exceeds the Federal tactical bonded 62 or 55 gr. loads and is less expensive and far easier to find.

dpfan  [Member]
6/15/2007 9:40:07 PM

Originally Posted By Silence214:

Is there another round in Federal's line that is comparable for barrier penetration?



Yes...


Federal 223 Rem 60gr Nosler Partition




This load is equal to or exceeds the Federal tactical bonded 62 or 55 gr. loads and is less expensive and far easier to find.



Thanks!
Spooge5150  [Team Member]
6/16/2007 6:06:08 PM

Originally Posted By Silence214:

Is there another round in Federal's line that is comparable for barrier penetration?



Yes...


Federal 223 Rem 60gr Nosler Partition




This load is equal to or exceeds the Federal tactical bonded 62 or 55 gr. loads and is less expensive and far easier to find.



Really??


I would like to see your info to back this up....
paulosantos  [Team Member]
6/16/2007 7:37:07 PM

Originally Posted By Spooge5150:

Originally Posted By Silence214:

Is there another round in Federal's line that is comparable for barrier penetration?



Yes...


Federal 223 Rem 60gr Nosler Partition




This load is equal to or exceeds the Federal tactical bonded 62 or 55 gr. loads and is less expensive and far easier to find.



Really??


I would like to see your info to back this up....


You can compare it here. Winchester loads it as their barrier round.
www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/pdf/LEPDF/2006%20Poster%20-%20Final.pdf
Reyn  [Member]
6/17/2007 10:02:16 AM
From tactical forums

If routinely engaging vehicles, the only LE .223 loads which effectively penetrate automobiles are the 62 gr Federal bonded JSP Tactical (LE223T3) and the similarly performing 55 gr Federal bonded JSP load. While not bad choices, neither the new Hornady 60 gr “barrier penetration” JSP nor the 60 gr Nosler Partition JSP bullets were quite as effective as the proven Trophy Bonded Bear Claws against glass in our testing. None of the OTM bullets, even the heavy 75 - 100 gr loads, offer good performance through automobile glass. FWIW, contrary to what many believe, 62 gr M855 FMJ also is not very good against glass. For military use, the M995 AP is the best choice for vehicles and glass
badkarma56  [Member]
6/17/2007 11:34:36 AM

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
LE223T1 is the 55gr it was designed for barrier penetration.

Last fall I had the chance to test some on a car, and to say the least I was really impressed. The Car was a 1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass

i18.tinypic.com/4qpx555.jpg
Passenger door

i11.tinypic.com/4yq4ea8.jpg
Interior Passenger door

i7.tinypic.com/4m372ic.jpg
Exiting the Interior Passenger door

i9.tinypic.com/67sw0hl.jpg
Interior Drivers side door

i11.tinypic.com/65z6l4m.jpg
Entrance

i12.tinypic.com/4poscao.jpg



i13.tinypic.com/4xwazko.jpg
Windshield Penetration

i18.tinypic.com/68iaqa0.jpg
Through the back seat and into the trunk

i15.tinypic.com/4os9sgj.jpg
Exit out rear deck lid

i17.tinypic.com/6h3cjgm.jpg
close up of exit, this round entered the windshield, went through the front and back seat and exited the trunk


I myself like the T3 I would not balk at T1,I have both. If you are going to get some remember it is expensive, and should not be wasted. I only used 6 rounds on this test.

There are less expensive choices for self defense rounds, TAP fits that bill good
The T1 or T3 is Serious ammo


ETA: The last I seen it, it was around $30.00 box of 20


*God Damn, Dpmmn! I guess I won't be considering that round for home defense...talk about a hot knife through butter.
Spooge5150  [Team Member]
6/17/2007 7:41:39 PM

Originally Posted By paulosantos:

Originally Posted By Spooge5150:

Originally Posted By Silence214:

Is there another round in Federal's line that is comparable for barrier penetration?



Yes...


Federal 223 Rem 60gr Nosler Partition




This load is equal to or exceeds the Federal tactical bonded 62 or 55 gr. loads and is less expensive and far easier to find.



Really??


I would like to see your info to back this up....


You can compare it here. Winchester loads it as their barrier round.
www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/pdf/LEPDF/2006%20Poster%20-%20Final.pdf


No offense, but that is a sales ad.
paulosantos  [Team Member]
6/17/2007 8:00:56 PM

Originally Posted By Spooge5150:

Originally Posted By paulosantos:

Originally Posted By Spooge5150:

Originally Posted By Silence214:

Is there another round in Federal's line that is comparable for barrier penetration?



Yes...


Federal 223 Rem 60gr Nosler Partition




This load is equal to or exceeds the Federal tactical bonded 62 or 55 gr. loads and is less expensive and far easier to find.



Really??


I would like to see your info to back this up....


You can compare it here. Winchester loads it as their barrier round.
www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/pdf/LEPDF/2006%20Poster%20-%20Final.pdf


No offense, but that is a sales ad.


If that is the case, then someone needs to tell them that the numbers they have on the 69 Gr. SMK suck. They claim it only penetrates 9" in gel.
Kisara  [Member]
6/20/2007 4:15:34 AM

Originally Posted By FNH:
If I remember correctly dpmmn knows a lot about this stuff.


Silence214  [Member]
6/20/2007 1:17:40 PM

From tactical forums

If routinely engaging vehicles, the only LE .223 loads which effectively penetrate automobiles are the 62 gr Federal bonded JSP Tactical (LE223T3) and the similarly performing 55 gr Federal bonded JSP load. While not bad choices, neither the new Hornady 60 gr “barrier penetration” JSP nor the 60 gr Nosler Partition JSP bullets were quite as effective as the proven Trophy Bonded Bear Claws against glass in our testing.



The 60gr. Nosler Partition round has been adopted by both the DEA and FBI to replace the 62 gr. Federal TB rounds.



No offense, but that is a sales ad.


No not quite. A DEA firearms instructor has confirmed the effectiveness of the 60gr. Nosler Partition round to me. I have seen video to back this up.

decide for yourself


Silence214