AR15.Com Archives
 243 WSSM upper
target1911  [Member]
10/6/2008 8:00:39 PM


I have been thinking of building a 243wssm upper. Who makes them or makes the components? What kind of modifications are need for the mags? Do you just replace the follower on a 223 mag or do you need custom mags?

What other rifle calibers will fit the AR15 lower?

the ones I know of...
223/5.56
6.5
6.8
243wssm

Thank You
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rsb5772  [Member]
10/6/2008 10:22:55 PM
.204
.223 WSSM
.25 WSSM

Big Bores -

.450 Bushmaster
.458 Socom
.50 Beowulf

I searched a while back and found a long list of calibers. Of coarse now I can't remember many of them.
jasonprox700  [Member]
10/7/2008 10:56:34 AM
DTech makes uppers for various WSSM. I don't have one yet, but when I get my .243 WSSM, that is who I am going to have build it.
DTech

Also, you could try Accuracy Systems. They look pretty cool too.
Accuracy Systems
imtheflash  [Team Member]
10/8/2008 5:31:40 AM
I'm still trying to decide which one to go with, either the 243 or the 25 WSSM. Hoping Dtech will chime in, what are the twist rates of your barrels?
LtBlue425  [Team Member]
10/11/2008 4:10:46 PM
I'm looking for a new upper in a deer/antelope hunting caliber. Right now I'm deciding between 6.5 Grendel and 25 WSSM.
ost  [Team Member]
10/11/2008 9:32:21 PM
25 on the way.
24ksports  [Team Member]
10/14/2008 7:35:58 PM
You are headed down a very lonely road with the WSSM's. I looked at one hard a few months ago. One you get past the issue of barrel life your will find availability of parts you need for the build are scarce not to mention brass.
imtheflash  [Team Member]
10/14/2008 9:15:46 PM

Originally Posted By 24ksports:
You are headed down a very lonely road with the WSSM's. I looked at one hard a few months ago. One you get past the issue of barrel life your will find availability of parts you need for the build are scarce not to mention brass.


What build parts, there are complete uppers available, and so is brass.
FALFire  [Member]
10/14/2008 9:55:49 PM

Originally Posted By 24ksports:
You are headed down a very lonely road with the WSSM's. I looked at one hard a few months ago. One you get past the issue of barrel life your will find availability of parts you need for the build are scarce not to mention brass.



Now here is a guy that has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.
QuicksilverJPR  [Team Member]
10/15/2008 9:42:10 AM

Originally Posted By 24ksports:
You are headed down a very lonely road with the WSSM's. I looked at one hard a few months ago. One you get past the issue of barrel life your will find availability of parts you need for the build are scarce not to mention brass.


I have plenty of brass (250 rounds, as a matter of fact), and barrel life is not an issue (if you have a barrel worth a damn, that is).
24ksports  [Team Member]
10/15/2008 11:52:58 AM

Originally Posted By imtheflash:

Originally Posted By 24ksports:
You are headed down a very lonely road with the WSSM's. I looked at one hard a few months ago. One you get past the issue of barrel life your will find availability of parts you need for the build are scarce not to mention brass.


What build parts, there are complete uppers available, and so is brass.


The orginal post references building an upper not looking to purchase a complete upper or rifle. My response was geared to the question of building an upper - however that doesn't change the fact the family of WSSM's are DOA as commercial cartridges. Pursuing the build of a 6 mm WSSM rifle requires chasing specialized components and additional costs associated with the nonstandard AR components for the WSSM. It begs the question of why wouldn't the shooter just buy a complete a DPMS or Remington R25 rifle in 243 WIN and avoid the problems with using what is becoming a wildcat cartridge ? While you can find ammo, brass, magazines, barrels, headspace gauges, bolts and other 243 WSSM parts when you calculate the costs and add in your time and no warranty you find there are other less expensive mainstream alternatives.
velocitywhore  [Member]
10/15/2008 12:37:39 PM
I think the WSSM line fits in the AR15 receiver. A 243 win is on the "AR10" receiver. That may be an issue with the OP. Barrel life should not be any worse than a 25/06. I am a relative noob so I could be wrong.

AL
jasonprox700  [Member]
10/15/2008 1:26:09 PM

Originally Posted By velocitywhore:
I think the WSSM line fits in the AR15 receiver. A 243 win is on the "AR10" receiver. That may be an issue with the OP. Barrel life should not be any worse than a 25/06. I am a relative noob so I could be wrong.

AL


Your right on barrel life. The barrel life will be the same with .243 WSSM & .243 Win, and .25 WSSM & .25-06. Velocities are about the same, with the WSSM actually burning less powder. Actually, burning less powder and reaching similar velocities equals better efficiency and longer barrel life.

I don't believe the WSSM is dead. Maybe the factory loadings will be harder to find, but there will still be brass available. Look at some of the cartridges designed for the AR-15. I bet you would have an easier time finding WSSM ammo in stores than lets say .458 SOCOM or 6.8 SPC ammo.
FALFire  [Member]
10/15/2008 1:50:52 PM
Olympic Arms is the only manufacture of the WSSM calibers. No one else is making the bolts or modifiying the receivers so one can build an upper from parts. Other sources are Mike Milli from Dedicated Technologies and Dan Carey from Carey's Custom Guns, they are currently building complete firearms and uppers that I'm aware of at this time. Mike is building some really cool calibers which should be available to the public soon if not already available. There may be others out there but I don't follow all of the gunsmiths that are building AR's.

The 243WSSM and 25WSSM are fantastic deer, antelope and coyote guns. Brass is available in huge numbers from many sources. Short barrel life is a myth as long as you don't bump fire the damn thing or try to shoot every prarie dog in one afternoon with 55 grain bullets going over 4000 fps.

My 243WSSM is still going strong still after 3 years of shooting on a regular basis. I have killed 4 deer and numerous coyotes in excess of 400 yards without any problem. My barrel is pushing 1000 rounds and maybe more and can still group 5 rounds of 72 - 75 grain bullets inside a nickle at 100 yards when I do my part. I have only broken one extractor and that was my fault for pushing the envelope on my reloading. Any stock AR15 extractor will replace any WSSM extractor so no problem there.

The mags are stock 20 rounders with a Magpul anti-tilt follower that is slightly modified and the mag catch hole is raised a very slight amount. It's very simple to modify standard 20 round USGI mags. Mike Milli is going to working with Magpul P-Mags in the near future as others have already found they work very well.

Feeding of the WSSM based calibers is nothing short of perfect. Bolt guns in the WSSM calibers had all sorts of feeding problems but the way the AR strips the round from the mag is a straight shot into the chamber and they work flawlessly.

The 243WSSM works very well using all factory available ammo. The 25WSSM works well with all but the 120 grain stuff, you will need to slightly seat the bullet back into the case only a very minimal amount to get it to stack into the mag. Most 20 round mags will hold 6 rounds with no problems and for big game hunting you don't need any more than that.

If you have any questions about the WSSM's in the AR15 platform call Mike Milli at Dedicated Technologies, he will clear up any confusion from others that post nonsense when they don't know what they are talking about. People that heard something from someone they know that talked to a friend that read an article about the WSSM's when they were drunk is not a very good source of info. Go straight to the main horse and that would be Mike Milli.
LtBlue425  [Team Member]
10/15/2008 9:21:26 PM

I don't believe the WSSM is dead. Maybe the factory loadings will be harder to find, but there will still be brass available. Look at some of the cartridges designed for the AR-15. I bet you would have an easier time finding WSSM ammo in stores than lets say .458 SOCOM or 6.8 SPC ammo.


For several years I've seen plenty of bags of new WSSM brass in local shops. I don't care about factory loads since I'm a reloader. If any group of newer cartridges are DOA it's the oversized Ultra Mags. The WSSM should be easier on a barrel due to issues mentioned by a previous poster.

I'm still looking at the 6.5 Grendel since it'll do what I need for medium game and I don't need the extra power of a WSSM. I have seen deer taken with a 25-06 and it worked very, very well.
LtBlue425  [Team Member]
10/15/2008 9:43:15 PM
Feeding off FAL's comments, the 220 Swift had a historic reputation for burning out barrels but I believe it was due in large part to barrel construction. A 22-250 running at 3800 fps isn't going to be any easier on a barrel but it doesn't have the reputation for burning barrels. Thinking back I believe I ruined a Ruger 22-250 on a prairie dog shoot back in the early 80's. When the heat waves off the barrel are so thick you have to stop shooting, that can't be good and I had to stop numerous times. It never did shoot as well afterwards.

The Secret Service snipers use 300 Win Mags custom built by their own gunsmiths. The 300 mag is hard on throats even in barrels built from the best materials and hand lapped. They run the 300 mag as hard as they can (other they'd use 308 Win) so the combination of high pressure, high velocity and lots of burning powder blasting through the throat erode them quickly.

Here's the kicker. The USSS snipers use the 600 yard group when the barrels are pretty new and check them periodically until they reach an unsatisfactory MOA (which they did not share). This usually occurs between 1200 and 1700 rds. They tell me you cannot tell the throat is eroding at closer ranges, hence the 600 yard standard. But how many average shooters are precision shooting at 600 to 1200 yards (longest the USSS shoots)?

A little off topic but throat erosion and barrel wear is going to happen to any caliber. But if you use care in shooting your rifle you don't have to treat it like the Boogie Man. Over bored magnums are going to be rougher on the barrel than the more balanced cartridges like the WSSM's.
FALFire  [Member]
10/15/2008 11:30:55 PM
Hey LtBlue,

Check out Dtech' website, he is currently offering the 6.5WSSM and is getting some very good customer feedback. He is also doing the same with the 30 cal and gettting near 30-06 velocities. I'm sure Mike has other goodies planned for us to drool over.
LtBlue425  [Team Member]
10/16/2008 7:34:35 PM
Thanks. I'll check it out. Knew the .30 was just out but didn't know he had a 6.5.
Wolfman223  [Member]
10/17/2008 1:49:52 AM
In the same vein but upping the caliber power I have a Winchester Super Shadow Model 70 in 7WSM that I have been trying to sell with nearly 600 rounds of factory Federal and Winchester premium nickel plated ammo with not much success.
I wonder if anyone makes an upper for the caliber realizing it probably has to sit atop a308 caliber lower.If no one buys the rifle I can at least trade in on something in the future with it then get an upper to use the ammo and reload the cases for it
jasonprox700  [Member]
10/17/2008 12:12:20 PM

Originally Posted By Wolfman223:
I wonder if anyone makes an upper for the caliber realizing it probably has to sit atop a308 caliber lower.If no one buys the rifle I can at least trade in on something in the future with it then get an upper to use the ammo and reload the cases for it


Try Accuracy Arms. A little pricy, but pretty cool!
Wolfman223  [Member]
10/18/2008 2:24:03 AM
Is pricey but interesting.If ammo keeps going up I can maybe talk the wife into one saying I am saving by spending..Looks like they have incorporated a Levang Linear Compensator on the barrel build.I screwed one of those on an M4 I have and it really reduched the bark to me and keeps the muzzle down also
9x23w  [Member]
10/24/2008 11:19:27 PM
Just noticed this thread - I have an Olympic 25 WSSM - 24" match barrel, RRA trigger. Definitely a 3/4 MOA gun and maybe better. I went w/ the 25 because Winchester/Browning chrome plates the 243 barrels and Olympic does not, so I was concerned about 243 barrel life. Not much difference between the 243 and the 25, 243 shoots a little flatter (I have a 243 WSSM bolt gun), 25 hits a little harder.

I reload everything. No real difference reloading the WSSM rounds and anything else. The brass is pretty thick and case life should be good. I agree they have been a marketing disaster, but in truth they make more sense in an AR-15 platform than in a bolt gun. They will shoot flatter than anything else in an AR-15 or AR-10, and they can use standard AR-15 lowers if you just want to buy an upper. The Olympic WSSM receivers are much stronger than a standard AR15 receiver unlike some of the other variants (see Mike Milli's sight for pictures).

Again, I have never fired a factory WSSM round out of either gun. I strongly recommend the WSSM uppers or whole guns, but you really have to reload to keep the costs down.
rsb5772  [Member]
10/25/2008 7:57:26 AM
A 300 WSSM would be a pretty sweet rifle. Too bad I don't load my own!
tommy1005  [Member]
10/29/2008 5:03:32 PM
personally I would like to see a 7mm WSSM, just for the great bc's on some of the 7mm bullets. Since nobody is making one I will be going with the 243 over the 25 simply because I can get the 115's to move a little faster and have a higher bc while I'm at it.

Wish there were more people shooting them, I'm going on Monday to buy my lower and start piecing it together
rsb5772  [Member]
10/29/2008 6:19:34 PM
Originally Posted By tommy1005:
personally I would like to see a 7mm WSSM, just for the great bc's on some of the 7mm bullets. Since nobody is making one I will be going with the 243 over the 25 simply because I can get the 115's to move a little faster and have a higher bc while I'm at it.

Wish there were more people shooting them, I'm going on Monday to buy my lower and start piecing it together


Someone is making them. Read the above posts!
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