AR15.Com Archives
 Weight of "typical" combat M4
tknogeek  [Team Member]
5/13/2011 5:02:54 PM EST
I'm putting together a bugout kit and contemplating the weapons to go with it. I have an RRA LAR-15 Elite Entry Tactical that weighs in around 9.5 pounds. That's fine for home defense and range fun, but throw ~30lbs of pack/supplies on my back and I'm thinking I'm not going to enjoy lugging a 10lb rifle plus 210 rounds. (Not to mention the pistol ammunition.) So I'm planning acquisition of a lightweight rifle (I'm enjoying the "lightweight AR" thread), but I got to wondering:

How much do combat M-4s weigh? I know the base M-4 is around 6.5lbs empty, but after adding the KAS rail, gripod, Trijicon sight, and laser/light unit I see in many pics, I'm thinking it's not as svelt as it once was. It seems my rifle has less on it than many of the mil-issued weapons and I'm just curious how it compares in weight.
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CLICKBANGBANG  [Team Member]
5/13/2011 5:11:00 PM EST
My M4 is 10 lbs. Yes it's a little heavy. But I don't like the dark.
Tweeder79  [Member]
5/13/2011 5:29:50 PM EST
mine comes in at 9 pounds loaded.
Scarecrow_1  [Member]
5/13/2011 5:30:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
My M4 is 10 lbs. Yes it's a little heavy. But I don't like the dark.
+1

9.5lbs Ilike miine a little heavy
N2CH_556  [Member]
5/13/2011 5:54:04 PM EST
Well equipped for defensive purposes (ETA the qualifier "quality" white light, sling, red-dot, loaded 30rd mag, etc) with half-way decent components and you're looking at about 10 lbs (or approaching it) and $1500ish+ range. Generally, if the level of quality stays the same, as the ounces come off, the dollars will go up. Examples:

Aimpoint M2 vs Aimpoint T1
Surefire G2 vs Surefire mini Scout (or x300)
DD/BCM 16" M4 barrel vs DD/BCM 11.5" LW SBR ($200+ for the tax stamp)

But it's all good in the hood.
tknogeek  [Team Member]
5/13/2011 7:16:42 PM EST
So, does anybody know the weight of the "typical" combat M4?
scoutfsu99  [Team Member]
5/13/2011 8:59:04 PM EST
You could always enlist and find out....

There are a lot of variations of the M4 out there. At a minimum I would think M4, RAS, 952, AP/ACOG. That's not including your 203's, unit specific items like Scout Lights, different optics, slings, stocks (SOPMOD ftw!), etc.
SMT85  [Member]
5/13/2011 9:46:57 PM EST
did some quick adding for ya.

colt m4-wikipedia says 6.36 lbs, remove detachable carrying handle. -9.1 ounces, remove plastic handguard - 6.5 ounces

AN/PEQ-2 AND 2A laser-210 grams. around 7.5 ounces, this is excluding batteries and bracket. so you will have to guesstimate the few ounces in for that.

kac ras m4 -11.6 ounces

gps02 grip pod- 7 ounces

trijicon acog ta31rco w/mount-16.2 ounces

so it comes out to about 8.3 pounds empty- 9.3 loaded roughly -no sling , no rail panels,no m203 or back up irons.

and if they also run a weapon light around another 5 ounces on top of that. so it can very well be around the ten pound mark
tknogeek  [Team Member]
5/14/2011 3:53:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By scoutfsu99:
You could always enlist and find out....
My enlistment expired over 20 years ago - long before the M4 came along.

There are a lot of variations of the M4 out there. At a minimum I would think M4, RAS, 952, AP/ACOG. That's not including your 203's, unit specific items like Scout Lights, different optics, slings, stocks (SOPMOD ftw!), etc.
I know there are specific mission configurations, but you listed the most common items I see mounted on M4s pictured on patrols. I also often see a laser mounted on top of the RAS - essentially the rifle shown here. His doesn't look like a 7 or 8lb rifle.

tknogeek  [Team Member]
5/14/2011 3:53:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By SMT85:
did some quick adding for ya.
...
so it comes out to about 8.3 pounds empty- 9.3 loaded roughly -no sling , no rail panels,no m203 or back up irons.

and if they also run a weapon light around another 5 ounces on top of that. so it can very well be around the ten pound mark
Thanks.
scoutfsu99  [Team Member]
5/14/2011 3:56:33 AM EST
lol, fair enough.

His is a typical M4. That's a PAQ4, they're still floating around. PEQ2/15's are standard though. After all that stuff, it's definitely not a 7-8lb rifle. Don't forget to add in all the 550 cord weight
SD307  [Member]
5/14/2011 5:08:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By tknogeek:
So, does anybody know the weight of the "typical" combat M4?


Unloaded a M4 weighs close to 7.5 lbs, with rails only 8.5, with a paq4, CCO, surefire 951 mag and VFG, About 9.5

Now in 03 in OIF 1

I had an:
m4
RAS
CCO
Paq 4
M203
203 leaf site
I was not issued a sling and had to use a 2qt canteen strap.

The whole set up came it close to 12 lbs with a mag and grernade loaded.

If you want light weight loose the rails. Go 20 round mag, loose the light all together or use a 6p.
warpig8654  [Team Member]
5/14/2011 7:30:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By tknogeek:
So, does anybody know the weight of the "typical" combat M4?


There's not really a "typical" M4. They are carried in various configs with different gear. An average weight would be around 9lbs.
FZK556  [Member]
5/14/2011 7:37:52 AM EST
I was obsessing over my 9.5lb AR.Thought it was way too heavy.Guess it's not as bad as I thought.
OldDocThedan  [Member]
5/14/2011 7:49:20 AM EST
As usual, I'll be one of those who muddies the water but doesn't answer the original question.

My duty M4 (Colt, short barrel) w/ an M3 light, iron sights, simple single point sling (not bungee) weighs in at 6.9lbs unloaded/no mag.

Off duty non-concealed carry Rock River.... well it's portly. I started simple have since bloated up to 10.5lbs. (again unloaded/no mag) but w/ Vortex Magnifier, Eotech, light, obese RRA foregrip (saw it listed at 1 lb/8oz somewhere), and bungee (adds about 7 oz) single point sling.

Other officer rifles fall in the 7.5––8.5 lb range w/ light, sling, some sort of optic, no mag.
NotIssued  [Member]
5/14/2011 10:03:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By FZK556:
I was obsessing over my 9.5lb AR.Thought it was way too heavy.Guess it's not as bad as I thought.


Go lug around a M-249 for a week and then complain about the M4.
pun  [Member]
5/14/2011 10:37:07 AM EST
Mine is 7 3/4 lb unloaded a pound more loaded.I use a socom barrel and standard handguards and ampoint and BUIS..
Alpha-Romeo3  [Team Member]
5/14/2011 11:25:23 AM EST
Hold on there guys, your Colt M4 weights are not correct, here are the official weights from the Colt Defense LE-Military 2011 catalog.

Colt M4 R0977: 6.8 lbs

Colt LE6921 14.5": 6.8 lbs

Ref. other models:

Colt Commando R0933 auto/ R0935 burst: 6.21 lbs
Colt LE6920 16": 6.95 lbs

Here's a good old weight data from the old Maryland AR15 Shooters MSN group, just do a little math (I won't do it for you).

HTH


https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?hl=en&key=tsU_kAjONKoGGfkDPaQZX1Q&hl=en#gid=0


scoutfsu99  [Team Member]
5/14/2011 3:45:42 PM EST
Army TM's say different, FWIW. Colt is more accurate probably...
FZK556  [Member]
5/14/2011 4:33:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By NotIssued:
Originally Posted By FZK556:
I was obsessing over my 9.5lb AR.Thought it was way too heavy.Guess it's not as bad as I thought.


Go lug around a M-249 for a week and then complain about the M4.


The funny thing is,the reason I started thinking about this was a Marine friend carried an M-249 and he would always get on me about making that rifle lighter."Ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain".Until he said something I'd never really thought about it before.
SD307  [Member]
5/14/2011 5:02:44 PM EST
He is right

I am currently drooling over the idea of a real light weight- my ideal jungle gun.

It has to be streamlines so nothing to catch as short as possible and light as possible with out going NFA.

So I have been looking at 14.5 perm FH LW barrels on a plastic lower, no rails or front sight just flip ups and a micro dot. semi carrier

I am thinking this should come in uder 6lbs empty and I would use a 20 round mag with 30s in the pouches for reloads.

This rifle would be fine for most close range applications 150 yards or less and a true grail of a brush gun.
gameboy  [Member]
5/14/2011 5:13:18 PM EST
Just wondering why do you care how much a "combat M4" weighs? The military issued M4s have a heavy chromed lined barrel and most have a fixed A2 stock. Looking about 9-10lbs loaded with 28rds.

If you want a light rifle I would not suggest a ACOG.

My buddy just came back from Iraq and now he's a vet. He told me he would not have a ACOG on his weapon if he had a choice, but he was issued one for his weapon so he used it.

If you're looking for something for home defense and light weight, I suggest a aimpoint t1 or h1. since it would likely be CQB if something was to happen in your home. ACOGs are like 11 oz with a mount.
scoutfsu99  [Team Member]
5/14/2011 5:35:11 PM EST
Lol.......M4's - by definition do not have A2 stocks. Our M4's have...M4 stocks A2's and A4's will have the A2 stock unless it's been replaced. A heavy chrome lined barrel? Are you thinking of the M4A1 barrel? Some of those have leaked into actual M4's but that's a replacement deal. Not to mention the planned upgrades.

Your "buddy" coming back from Iraq has nothing to do with him being a Veteran.
Matt_B  [Team Member]
5/14/2011 6:23:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By gameboy:
If you want a light rifle I would not suggest a ACOG. ACOGs are like 11 oz with a mount.
There is an ACOG that is almost exactly the same weight as the Aimpoint Micros - the TA44s. Even then, a full size Aimpoint with mount is about the same weight most ACOGs - about 12 oz.

98Z5V  [Member]
5/14/2011 7:02:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By gameboy:
The military issued M4s have a heavy chromed lined barrel and most have a fixed A2 stock.


Really? M4 and A2 stock? Most?


Pics, please.
gameboy  [Member]
5/15/2011 1:15:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By scoutfsu99:
Lol.......M4's - by definition do not have A2 stocks. Our M4's have...M4 stocks A2's and A4's will have the A2 stock unless it's been replaced. A heavy chrome lined barrel? Are you thinking of the M4A1 barrel? Some of those have leaked into actual M4's but that's a replacement deal. Not to mention the planned upgrades.

Your "buddy" coming back from Iraq has nothing to do with him being a Veteran.


He did his 4 yrs isn't that a vet? I meant M16A4 which the marines carry.

The military doesn't use the TA44...
scoutfsu99  [Team Member]
5/15/2011 3:51:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By gameboy:
My buddy just came back from Iraq and now he's a vet.


This is what you said. Your friend is a Veteran because he served his country, not because he "just came back from Iraq."
Marines carry a variety of weapons but one of them will have to square you away on that. The topic was about M4's, not M16A4's. We know A4's are heavier. You just got confused with the differences.
DakotaFAL  [Member]
5/15/2011 4:29:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By scoutfsu99:
Originally Posted By gameboy:
My buddy just came back from Iraq and now he's a vet.


This is what you said. Your friend is a Veteran because he served his country, not because he "just came back from Iraq."
Marines carry a variety of weapons but one of them will have to square you away on that. The topic was about M4's, not M16A4's. We know A4's are heavier. You just got confused with the differences.
He was not clear but I interpreted the comment as two separate issues 1) his buddy served in Iraq and 2) his buddy is now a Vet (which I took to mean now out of the military).

–––

The premis of the thread is somewhat flawed as it is based on an ad populum logical fallacy that it must be ok if everyone does it. Sadly that does not make an unnecessarily heavy weapon any easier to carry or any more functional for it's primary role.

I also adhere to the same school of thought as the Marine quoted a few posts back regarding the need to keep a weapon light weight whenever possible. Add on accessories are fine but only when they fulfill a particular purpose on a particular mission. I'm a little old school and I was originally issued an M-16A1, so I'm biased but the US Army dumped the 8 pound M16A2 for a light weight carbine and then added back all the weight plus more in rails handgrips, optics lights, etc. The end result was to take light and fast handling carbine (with some acceptable trade offs in exterior ballistics) and make it heavier and slower handling than the longer ranged rifle it replaced getting basically no gain for the loss in exterior ballistics and no reduction in the combat load of the average soldier.

Personally, I like to minimize weight and stick with the KISS principle an then will add an optic when needed. That keeps the weigh down to 7.4 pounds for a flat top with telestock, 16" lightweight barrel, comp M2, BUIS, sling and loaded 30 round mag. Leave off the comp M2 and the weight drops down to 6.7 pounds. The difference in weight between that 6.7 round carbine and a 10 pound tacticool M4 equates to 120 rounds of stripper clipped ammunition. So at some point in the day the guy with the tacticool M4 is either gonna be tired or be out of ammo.


scoutfsu99  [Team Member]
5/15/2011 4:53:02 AM EST
It's about capabilities, not Joe sticking cool guy stuff on his rifle. Rails are the first step in this - no more taping a light with 100mph tape. RDS for faster target acquisition, ACOG for PID of far targets, etc. I doubt you'll ever see an irons only rifle again. Even guys in basic are getting optics. Tac lights became popular with the urban environment in Iraq. I promise you, it is not a good feeling to clear a house with no light.

Carrying a heavier rifle isn't where I have a problem. I'm more worried about the fuck ton of body armor, CSM inspired packing lists, etc. That is where we need to reduce the combat load of a SM.
RifleDog  [Member]
5/15/2011 11:50:53 AM EST
I have a Bushmaster M4 but its got the Pencil Barrel and it only weighs 6.1 LB. People whot pick it up cant believe how light it is. Some say it feels like a toy. I put a Sprinco Red Buffer Spring, a H2 Buffer, Heavy Extractor Spring, plenty of Slip 2000 and TW25B and the thing runs great. Super light !!!!!!!!!

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